We need the whole country to protest the war and any involvement in a war with Iran which is just around the corner because of our coddling of Israel.

As a Trotskyist who has been involved in hundreds of demonstrations over the past 27 years, I must say that I object very strongly to the tactic of disrupting religious services of any kind. This is a stupid and utterly indefensible form of protest, seemingly calculated to make the left look like a bunch of idiots, and to alienate people who might otherwise be sympathetic to criticism of the arch-reactionary Cardinal George.

I can't even think of a precedent for this kind of an action in the history of the left in the US. It's reprehensible to pull a stunt like this during a religious service. Leaflet the mass if you like - respectful of people's religious beliefs - very careful not to appear to be preventing anyone from attending religious services. Patiently discuss the issues - before and after the service. But a religious service is not analogous to a public meeting where Cardinal George is going to speak, in which case picketing might be appropriate and a dynamic intervention like this one might be necessary if there was an effort to prevent important issues from being discussed during the open mike portion of the meeting.

I just want every worker in Chicago to know that disrupting religious services is NOT an acceptable way to protest as far as Marxists are concerned. I'm very sorry to hear that these misguided activists decided that it was an acceptable tactic. They have much to learn. Their hearts may have been in the right place, but their heads were decidedly NOT. They clearly would have benefited from some guidance from members of the workers movement, who most assuredly would have attempted to dissuade them from bringing discredit on the entire workers movement and the anti-war movement through the use of such an insensitive, grandstanding, inappropriate form of protest.

Having said all that: I agree that all the charges should be dropped against these activists except that they should have to go clean up the beige carpet and the pews that they stained with the fake blood as a "penance" for their misguided youthful idiocy... and apologise to the parishoners at the same church before, during (ONLY if invited to do so!) and after services next Sunday for their well-intentioned, youthful stupidity.

Varlet

Frankly Varlet, your command of movement history is as sketchy as your alleged working class politics. Indeed, there were a number of dramatic inside protests at sites like the National Cathedral in DC by Vietnam antiwar activists and members of the religious left during those televised religious services that permitted the likes of major pro-war politicians to put their pious hypocrisy on display.

As for your role as a member of the 'workers's movement, I'll take this with a grain of salt, considering that the US labor movement has literally evaporated in the past 27 years on your watch. In fact, you might take a lesson from these kids the next time management fucks your local in contract negotitions.

Finally, these kids have nothing to apologize for and a lot to be commended for taking this message beyond the comfort zone of those content or unable to imagine anything outside the limits of permitted, polite dissent.

Do the math, Frank. 27 years. I wasn't around to witness every dumbass, indefensible protest during the Vietnam War era.

As for your defense of the tactic of disrupting religious services to make a political point; it's a tactic of those people who despair of revolutionary, working class action ever taking place, and who believe that somehow a well-timed stupid grandstanding move on national TV will have a greater impact than, say, the hot-cargoing of war materiel by the Longshoremen's Union.

I just want to make sure that everyone in the world who comes here to Chicago Indymedia find out about this misguided protest understands that it is not an acceptable form of protest as far as the Marxist, Trotskyist movement is concerned. This was an action taken by a small group of well-intentioned activists who chose a spectacularly inappropriate way to raise the issue of opposition to the war in Iraq. Which opposition, by the way is favored by some 70% of the electorate these days, according to the polls.

It was as wrong to disrupt religious services in the 1800's, 1920s, 1930s, '40s, '50s, '60s, '70s etc., as it is today, according to my understanding of Marxism and the history of the workers movement. I'm sure that the actions you speak of, from the 1970's, engendered quite a bit of criticism from the workers movement even back then.

There's a big difference between intervening in a public forum from which your ideas are being excluded and disrupting a religious service - don't you agree?

Varlet

And the track record of Varlet's specific political trend on the Left in the past two decades has been exactly what?

Hundreds of thousands of union workers flocking to join the revolutionary movement ? Demonstrations against the war numbering in the millions? US ports closed because of militant industrial action being taken by militant dockworkers to blockade the war machine? A vibrant Trotskyist workers party ready to provide leadership and inspiration, rather than splintering into a uncipherable 3-way split every time party membership soars into triple digits?

LOL.

> by puhleeze

>And the track record of Varlet's tatical orientation in the >past two decades has been exactly what? Hundreds of >thousands of union workers flocking to join the >revolutionary movement are they? With a vibrant Trotskyist >vanguard party ready to take the helm? LOL.

The Trotskyist movement in the US, such as it is, has been run very poorly the past 30 years, so far as organizing the working class is concerned. They have not even been able to describe to the working class the basic concept of how socialism would improve their lives materially. They've done a piss-poor job of it, really.

But they have done quite well theoretically (if by "we" we mean "Spartacists") in warning the working class of many false prophets of the left and right that have held the working class in thrall (Allende, Ayatollah Khomeini) and have warned us of other fake workers movements as well (Solidarnosc, Stalinism,).

Cynics like "puhleeze" have been present to sneer at every revolutionary workers movement from time immemorial - from the age of Spartacus to the period of the Paris Commune to the rise of Lenin's Bolsheviks to the present day. Cynicism hasn't achieved a damn thing for anyone, ever. Cynics always stand opposed to every revolutionary movement before the revolution... only to glom onto it after its success, then to drag it down by shamelessly fawning over the "great Stalin", the "Great Helmsman" or some other reactionary "great leader" afterwards.

The Great Cynic "Puhleeze" wants to criticise the Trotskyist movement? Puhleeeze!

Varlet

Holy Name Cathedral, where the city's elite gather to 'worship', is a perfectly appropriate target. Bear in mind that no such protest would be necessary for parishoners at a church like Trinity on Chicago's far south side, where Rev. Jeremiah Wright preached until last month. Why? Because preachers like Wright tell the truth about the war, while apologists for our 'leaders' like George are complicit in the misdeed of our leaders. No sacred cows, including in the inner sanctum of those sacred cows.

Do your research. George is on record, along with the Council of Religious Leaders of Metropolitan Chicago, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, and Popes John Paul II and Benedic XVI, as clearly against the war on moral grounds.

www.opctj.org/news/chicago-crl-12-01-02.html

I oppose the war myself, but how anyone can see anything but patent nonsense and foolishness in this action is beyond me.

Weird that much of this thread is an alleged lefty complaining about a clearly leftist act -- taking the war directly to a part of the public that still supports it. Let's be clear -- those kids are facing completely bogus felony charges because some dipshit copper whiteshirt in the house got his undies in a bunch. Why? Because 'their' church is one place these sanctimonious hypocrites expect to be able to pat themselves on the back and reassure themselves about their salvation despite their ongoing support for what is effectively mass murder of Iraqis. The KKK has hidden among the ranks of more than a few so-called 'church leaders', a tradition that is alive and thriving today among people like ardent John McCain supporter and unrepentant anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic pastor John Hagee. And a host of right-wing movements, from the generals in Chile to the leaders of right-wing death squads in Colombia, have relied on tacit and sometimes open support from Catholic Church 'leaders', those master political hacks in their own right. The reality is that Cardinal George has put the cabosh wherever possible on local parishes whose priests have supported issues that are too 'progressive', from work on behalf of immigrants in those parishes to peace work on behalf of the Iraqi people. Do you think religion in places like the Catholic Archdiocese isn't political?

We need to ditch the business-as-usual mentality out there about this war, and that means taking it directly to those who continue to support this war, wherever that may be. One place these warmonger hypocrites are hiding is 'church'. So we take it to them there. That is, after all, what the bible says Jesus Christ did. Got the pharisees' undies in a bunch back then, too.

To wtf?:

You act as though the antiwar movement has had absolutely NO impact on the US working class these past 5 years... but the polls show that right now, 70% of the populace is opposed to the war... quite a change from 5 years ago, don't you think?

Not to mention that it has been reported that the absentee ballots being sent in during the primaries from the soldiers in Iraq have been heavily in favor of either Ron Paul or Obama - both candidates who have vowed to pull the US soldiers out of Iraq ASAP.

Compare the police actions at the first antiwar demo 5 years ago, before the war started, when 800 people got arrested... to this weeks 19 Mar demo, where exactly 0 people got arrested. Much harder for the cops to justify arresting people when the opposition to the war is at 70%, even though there were some dumbass anarchoids who were trying to get busted the night of Mar 19th outside the Newberry Library... but the police, now significantly run by the murderous but far shrewder ex-FBI honcho, weren't biting. The cops weren't even wearing riot gear; they had no intention of using tear gas, as not one cop had a gas mask on him/her. Unlike the pre-war demo, where every cop was dressed like Darth Vader and they carried both gas masks and tear gas canisters. They were ready to seriously kick ass back then. They could have kicked ass on Mar 19th as well, but they were using far softer tactics, as befits a much stronger anti-war climate among the populace.

70% opposition is real to the powers that be in Chicago... but some puerile fake-lefties here seem to think that it's still 2003.

Wtf rants that "The KKK has hidden among the ranks of more than a few so-called 'church leaders".... yeah but not "Catholic Church" leaders, you idiot. What a dumb analogy.

Go outside and get yourself a breath of fresh air, wtf...you're hyperventilating.

Varlet

Ah. The Sparticist League roundly condemns the rampant adventurism in assailing the sancity of religious institutions. Glad we've cleared THAT up.

Incidentally, there were literally busloads of tactical riot police squirrled away around the corner on March 19th. But the bruising the city's image received after illegally arresting 800 people in 2003 certainly played a role in the CPD's effort to lower it's profile - particularly in front of the cameras.

Which only underscores the point. The demo in 2003 was both effective and powerful precisely because it evolved into the single largest act of civil disobdience in Chicago since 1968.

I call on all the official representatives of the trade unions and the Marxist and Trotskyist movements to make their positions clear as to the defensibility of the tactic of disrupting religious services in order to make a political point.

I strongly feel that we must make clear our opposition to such tactics and to nip this misguided policy in the bud before this becomes an accepted tactic among the new "new left".

Varlet

Varlet. Looks like the rest of the movement isn't exactly lining up to sign on to your official appeal. Bummer. But funny.

As a deceased member of the Industrial Workers of the World, I speak from the grave with authority of History. From now on, the Workers Movements shall draw a fine line at the interruption junction:

No worker shall interrupt meal service
No worker shall disrupt room service
No worker shall make a political point during service industry work
No worker shall defend the tactic of interrupting those who are at your service
And last but not least, no interruption of lip-service!

Any deviation from Party Conga-Line will result in a purge, split, debate, faction, and then ultimately formation of a new party programme- pardon the service interruption.

hate to break it to you, but none of these activists never would nor never will intend to be part of your trotskyist cadre. To them, or anyone who has the sense to think for themselves the words of your party leaders mean no more than the words of the leaders of the church or state.

may I suggest these brave protestors repeat this direct action this week in a mosque and then in a synagogue.

we're a little busy raising bail right now, but give us a week or so.

hey, while you're at it, if you can me a mosque that's behind the war in iraq, i'll be there with whole buckets of fake blood.

"hey, while you're at it, if you can me a mosque that's behind the war in iraq, i'll be there with whole buckets of fake blood. "

point taken and thank you for debate.

my rant was that staging this type of protest inside a religious service is stupid and alienates us even more.

and i bet you many synagogues have no problem with the situation in the middle east and in iraq, when will you be doing that same direct action in one of them?

you wouldnt and you couldnt.

and the government is the one in charge of the war, lets do the same protest today at the 6's hearing to raise the pressure and keep the media focus.

you wouldnt and you couldnt.

The Catholic Church is far from "behind the war in Iraq". In fact, the pope (whom, for the record, I can't stand and hate to give any credit to) was one of the first religious leaders to speak out against the war, and has been consistent from the start. At least get your facts straight.

By the reasoning of these protestors, anyone who meets with anyone who supports the war is "behind the war"... isn't isolationism (i.e. refusing to meet with people like Saddam Hussein and instead imposing sanctions that killed thousands) what got us into this mess to begin with? Shouldn't we be ENCOURAGING people who support our anti-war position to meet with W and impress that upon him? I just don't understand the reasoning.

Finally, it is incredibly disrespectful to interrupt religious services, period. There is a time for disrespect and civil disobedience, but I don't think during religious services of a denomination that supports your position is it. If this was a mosque or a synagogue or a temple, it would be a hate crime.

I suspect a hidden hand. It smells like an action done to discredit the anti-war movement.

No it wasn't. Your paranoia has overtaken you. As evidence I submit the fact that indymedia was there with cameras as it was happening... almost as if they were, ya know, tipped off...

I suspect a hidden hand. It smells like an action done to discredit the anti-war movement. head. out. of. ass.

5 LONG YEARS OF WAR and does the public still remember there is a war going on? When the media stops giving due mention of a cataclysmic event it is the responsibility of the people to take to the streets and rally the wakeup call. Let's not forget why we are at war: LIES… The government lied that Iraq was connected to 911. The government lied that Al Qaeda was stationed in Iraq. The government lied that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. The government lied that the war would only cost 60 billion dollars. The government lied that we would only be in Iraq a couple months. The government lied that we are winning the war. The government lied that the mission has been accomplished. DO YOU REMEMBER ANY OF THIS? Since the very beginning we have been fighting a war upon false pretenses. Why? Why would the government lie to start and perpetuate a war? Surely this war is not being fought for the reasons claimed. The 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians who have died as a direct result of coalition forces and the 600,000 innocent Iraqi "casualties" of war who have died or been seriously injured and disabled were never a threat to us. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/ The media hardly ever gives mention of these unfortunate statistics and trivializes the lives of these honorable people by demeaning them as foreigners. But even these revealing statistics can not really appraise the value of a human life and the cost of such tragic loss. How do you gain peace and justice by waging an illegal war of aggression? How do you protect human rights by murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings? How do you stabilize a region by destroying the essential infrastructural services and displacing millions of people from their homes? How do you preserve freedom and democracy abroad by unilaterally acting against the will of the public and taking away the civil liberties of citizens at home? So if every claim for why we are fighting was a lie than why are we at war? WE WERE FED LIES AND DECEPTIONS! Who is profiting? What is the real motive? The nearly 100,000 Iraqi's who have died by coalition forces and 600,000 men, women, and children who have violently died been seriously injured and disabled did not benefit. The 3,000 US soldiers who have laid down their lives and the tens of thousands of young men and women serving in the armed forces who are permanently injured and disabled who must now spend an entire lifetime suffering did not benefit. The family, friends, and loved ones of these dead and disabled civilians, soldiers, and human beings did not benefit. NEITHER THE AMERICAN OR IRAQI PEOPLE ARE BENEFITING! We are now trillions of dollars in debt. All of the money that could have been spent on hospitals, education, energy, and agriculture has been wasted fighting an illegal war upon lies and false pretenses that serves no just cause, no moral purpose, and absolutely no beneficial interest to humankind. This war has only destroyed countless lives and inflicted irreparable damages while actually increasing the threat of terrorism and overwhelming military resources. The only people profiting from this war are the corporations. The private armies and the military industrial complex, the banks and contractors. And their soulless self interest is money, greed, and power. The people in control of the US government are some of the biggest mass murderers in history. Who else now incarcerated in the overcrowded Cook County Jail is responsible for taking as many lives? Out of all the convicted felons rotting away in prison how many have committed similar atrocities? THERE IS NO BIGGER CRIME THAN WAGING A WAR AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE! Who else has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives? Who else has displaced millions of people from their homes? Who else has destroyed the essential infrastructure of a nation? Who else has forsaken millions of civilians in a state of hunger, destitute, and ruins without basic humanitarian services such as water, hospitals, or electricity and in the midst of ever-present violence, chaos, and warfare? Out of the over 2 million people currently packed behind bars in the US prison system, and of all the hundreds of thousands of people illegally held captive in prisons overseas, who else has ever committed such crimes against humanity as the villains who are currently running the government of this country…No one; THE BIGGEST ATROCITIES are being committed by the CRIMINALS CONTROLING THE WHITE HOUSE while hiding behind false patriotism and wiping clean the blood stains with our country's flag. And YESTERDAY IN CHICAGO 6 YOUNG PROTESTERS WERE ARESTED and are being held in Cook County Jail on felony charges for staging a "die in" against the war during Easter service at Holy Name Cathedral which is the city's most prominent Catholic parish. Let us not forget that the blood these activists sprayed was fake while the blood spilled by the war is real. And if the crime of reenactment is intolerable enough to land 6 youths in Cook County Jail then what about the criminals in our government who are responsible for actually committing the real atrocities? What would Jesus be preaching about in his sermon on this Easter Sunday? Would he be supporting the war like the so called Christian-right republicans and waving the US flag as troops come home in body bags? And the church clergy claims to represent Jesus Christ as the authority figure for God on earth. Where would Jesus be at this historic moment? Perhaps Jesus would be in jail like all the other radical thinkers in history: Socrates, Baha'u'llah, Henry David Thoreau, Mohandas Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Marin Luther King Jr… To be continued? When does it end? When is enough enough? When is the cost too much? At what price do we set our maximum wager? How many more thousands of lives? How many more trillions of dollars? What exactly are we trying to accomplish? Can't we realize that war is not the tool? We need to immediately CALL A CEASE FIRE and END THE MILITARY OCCUPATION! The problem is that the corrupt government administration can not possibly negotiate a peaceful settlement: 1. If they wanted to they would have already so apparently it isn't in the administration's interest. 2. The US administration's sinister motives are exposed to the world and these criminals can not be trusted by either the Iraqi or US citizens. The terms being offered are BLATANTLY UNACCEPTABLE, unreasonable, and non-negotiable. The resistance fighters or "insurgents" are not willing to tolerate: 1.Reckless killing in order for the US to gain geopolitical dominance 2.The construction of 14 new military bases 3.The installation of a puppet US government 4.The US ownership and control of national resources Who are we to negotiate the terms of withdrawal? WE HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE! In order to sustain legitimate peace we must call a mutual cease fire and institute a period of peaceful diplomacy in which people of both nations can communicate directly without interference by the corrupted political "authorities" which are not capable of settling this dispute. WE MUST BE THE PEACEMAKERS! Starting on the home front! It is time to reclaim our government In order to make reparations for damages And restore justice for freedoms lost. "Blessed are the peacemakers For they shall inherit the Earth." (Jesus)

Donte is the coolest anarcho-christian in the lower 48. I was wondering why I hadnt heard anything from him here in Houston TX for a while, and of course, its because hes kicking ass taking names and pissing off Trotskiests in the city of brotherly love.

I hope Catholic SchoolGrrls against the War get off easy, we dont want to have to write y'all in prison again;

houston.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/49460.php
houston.indymedia.org/news/2006/04/48505.php

Love & Struggle
Space City Anarchists

We need LOTS more things like this. Demonstrations INSIDE Macys. Demonstrations inside church services or movie theaters. Blocking the doors to military recruitment stations. Demonstrations INSIDE O'Bama rallies to protest his reactionary policies. The Catholic Church is particular is a racist, pro-imperialist, child molesting disgrace. SHUT IT DOWN!

Here's what Kathy Kelly, arguably one of the most powerful Catholic antiwar voices in the country had to say about this protest in a letter to the Trib editors:

Dear Editors,

The six activists who raised their voices, during Cardinal George's Easter homily in Holy Name Cathedral, recalled suffering and carnage caused by the war in Iraq. They screamed. They poured "stage blood." They fell to the floor.

Under U.S. occupation, and as a result of U.S. economic sanctions and military war waged since 1991, Iraqis have seen horrific bombings outside and within their worship places, along with the physical and social destruction of their country. Iraqis have endured mass killing, kidnappings, torture, incarcerations without cause, and an almost complete breakdown of vital infrastructure services including electricity, sewage treatment, and health care delivery.

In the U.S. and in Iraq, arms ache for loved ones who will never return. Yet many of us may feel numb, even forgetful, regarding the terrible cost of this war. The Easter Sunday action at the cathedral gave us an opportunity to remember that we are a nation at war and to consider ways to follow Jesus' teachings, --to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, heal the sick, love our enemies and bless the peacemakers."

- Many thanks to the courageous folks who participated in the action at the Cathedral on Easter calling the church to take a real stand against the war, not just give it lip service

THAT'S RIGHT!!! RIGHT ON!

We just donated $100. via the PayPal account. Screw the bills we have to get our friends out of jail.

maybe now more people will wake up and realize that going through the "appropriate channels" hasn't made a difference.

the numbers in the polls aren't doing anything,
the occupation is still going on

a church, a school, a store, a street corner;
all places are appropriate for taking a stand.
if people continue to think that a place is too "sacred" or "inappropriate" to do so, we'll continue to sweep things under the rug.

honestly, whats a little fake blood and discomfort compared to thousands of dead on all sides of this conflict?

That was the worst protest idea ever. First, what does the Catholic church have to do with the war? Nothing! Second, even the Pope is against the war, and the last Pope (JP2) admonished Dubya right to his face about the war when nobody else would. Third and finally, anyone who goes to anti-war protests will see Catholic anti-war groups marching. This kind of action only undermines the anti-war cause by helping the media to marginalize us. And possibly those anti-war Catholics will lose faith in the anti-war movement after acts like this. This act definitely destroys solidarity within the movement. Very poorly timed too: choosing the most sacred day of the year makes it especially tasteless. If you had done just one bit of reading on faith and the war you would find out after about three minutes of reading that it is not the Catholics but the evangelicals who support the war! My God you guys are as bad as the conservasheeps who don't know the difference between Shiite and Sunni. Please just stay home next Sunday. If you really want to make a difference and do something daring, you should pull this at a city council meeting when Daley, a close pal of dubya's, is sitting there.

Tipscommissar stumbles on it when he writes "First, what has the Catholic Church got to do with the war? Nothing!"

And that's precisely the problem.

Want to know what the lay Catholic peace groups who have been marching in antiwar parades, organizing vigils and and rallies, speaking out, bearing witness, and yes, conducting civil disobdience during the past 5 years think about the protest at Holy Name?

Ask them before you presume to speak for them.

You write:
"you should pull this at a city council meeting when Daley, a close pal of dubya's, is sitting there."

Duh, "close pal of dubya's" Richie Daley AND Cardinal George were at the same closed door meeting with Dubya on January 7th. Who's to say George is any less a friend of Dubya's than Daley?

The fact is, if EITHER of them were inclined to forcefully speak out against the war, they could have used the occasion to publicly snub the Dubya during his visit here by refusing to meet with him, and announcing their actions to the press. Instead, both claim to be against violence and yet have no problem with breaking bread at the posh Union League Club with the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.

Every government needs the compliance and cooperation of its population in order to carry out any policy. As we enter the sixth year of the illegal occupation of Iraq, the people of the US need to be challenged to confront the fact that our silence and passivity is complicity: over 1.3 million Iraqi people have been killed, torture has been institutionalized, basic habeas rights have been eliminated on the say-so of one proven liar (Bush), and this has all been done in our names. Little children in Iraq are not only terrorized by far worse scenes than Holy Name every day - they are the victims themselves of bombings, shootings, and the use of white phosphorous by "our troops."

I say thank-you from the bottom of my heart to the righteous protesters who didn't ignore or sugarcoat this reality just because prominent people were celebrating a religious holiday this past Sunday. The war won't end until we stop business as usual and take responsibility for ending it.

I have mixed feelings about this protest. Not because I have any particular misgivings about the sanctity of the local elite's church service, but rather the risk involved in how this may or may not be played out in the publics perception.
There is obviously the "holy fuck no they didn't!" reaction which must certainly be ringing in the ears of many people who are rendered deaf to the message presented to them. Yet on the other hand, as our dear capitalist friends have learned, there really is no such thing as bad publicity. Especially in regards to this war where each fresh corpse flown home is that much less newsworthy.
I'm no leftist scholar like some of you (losers!) but I would venture to say that this strikes me as a Saul Alinsky flavored action. That is to say that while having a coherent message is crucial, it's meaningless without a creative means to hold peoples attention.
That being said, I have neither condemnation nor applause for this action. Only time will tell (and probably vaguely at best) whether this act was more harm than good. When all else is considered, the fact remains that these people had the nerve to choose this gambit while none of us have done anything to elicit such scrupulous analysis.

varlet quoteth:
"As a Trotskyist...."

OMFG, could you be anymore fucking anachronistic and irrelevant?

"who has been involved in hundreds of demonstrations over the past 27 years"

Why YES! Apparently you could!!

By the way, my working class sister, what local might you hail from?

oops, that was me above!

And while I'm at it wasting valuable IMC space, I might as well address an interesting point brought up.
What if this is all an elaborate ruse carried out by the fed boys to discredit the anti-war movement ?

The thought crossed my mind, although being the faithful anti-government extremist that I am, I would never raise such an accusation without credible evidence (read:snitchjacketing). The only comment I have on this notion is a response to someone's naive claim that this couldn't be a gov. ploy as the IMC was tipped off.
I just want to let everyone know that I would be severely disappointed in "our" billion-dollar-budget intelligence agencies if they couldn't pull of such a stunt without either impersonating or duping a random member of a trusted group (read: greenscare).
To clarify, It's my personal opinion that these fucks have better things to do than discredit an already impotent anti-war movement, but it's still dangerous to assume that people or actions are "legit" because they have assumed (or appeared to have) a trusted role in the activist infrastructure or have recieved the blessings of those such people.

I used to be friends with one of the protestors, Regan Maher. I admire her courage to be involved in such a dramatic, yet justified demonstration. I support what they did 100%, and slapping the protestors with felony charges is merely an act of retaliation against an opposing political voice. This country is based on individual's right to protest and freedom of speech, and just because it happened in a church (or better yet "money-hungry business") on a stupid pagan holiday, people are all in a frenzy. I wouldn't be surprised if they also got charged with trespassing. That would really expose the hypocrisy of the church.

After reading the comments, and kudos who supported the Church by sharing what the Church has said about this war (and shame on those anti-Catholic bigots who have another agenda), but after reading the comments I feel I have to say this: The form of protest used at the Cathedral, and many others that I have witness, is soooo 1960s. Try honest and polite dialogue, that is what we millenials are using.

After reading the comments, and kudos who supported the Church by sharing what the Church has said about this war (and shame on those anti-Catholic bigots who have another agenda), but after reading the comments I feel I have to say this: The form of protest used at the Cathedral, and many others that I have witness, is soooo 1960s. Try honest and polite dialogue, that is what we millenials are using.

"Try honest and polite dialogue". That's exactly what Catholic peace activists around the world have been doing since before this unjust war began. A fact you would know if you had been paying attention at all. The response from the church hierarchy have been platitudes and hypocrisy at best - and in most cases, a thundering silence. Their inaction makes them complicit. Meanwhile the bodies pile higher.

This is completely foolish. Disrupting someone's religious service is crazy. I wonder if you all would be so supportive if this was a jewish place of worship? This is just going to cause people to disregard the peace movement.

America is a christian based society. If a Caldean Catholic did something like this in a mosque in Iraq, these questions would be a non-issue. America goes to such lengths to paint this whole country as Christian and god-fearing that a church is hardly a foriegn institution. It's impossible to grow up in america and not find Christianity imposed upon you. I say this to counter all the people that say "you wouldn't think this was so cool if it were in a synogogue or a mosque." It's true because there's a history, recent and not recent, of anti-semetic and anti-muslim bigotry. People can say all they want about anti-Catholic or christian bigotry here because people criticize the dominant religious power structure, but since it's the dominant, and not a minority religion, with a long imposing history in this country, and since these young whipper snappers grew up in this Christian culture, people shouldn't be so shocked when some decide to rebel within these institutions. Besides, they said they were Catholic School Girls Against the War. Obviously, somewhere they identify as Catholic in some sort or another (or are supportive of their cause). This is extremely different than an American doing something similar in a synagogue for their religion's silence on the war, or a mosque. And besides, a million plus people have died in Iraq because people can't even talk about this stuff. While we're twidling our thumbs over what tactic is best, I think it's safe to say none of the tactics that have been used to stop the war have been effective enough to say that this one way is definately the only way to go for success. I'm glad these yung uns are using new tactics because if this were just another Answer UFPJ protest, no one would be talking about it.

If you want a better image for the anti-war movement, do something to re-invent it. The tactics that have been used so far don't even make the local papers anymore where I live. And you can't blame them (or you can) because it's basically the same protest each time with the same quotes from all the organizers. And as the protests get carbon copied, the bodies keep piling up.

Right on down South hick! We gotta reinvent peace protest and get more people doing this stuff in different ways cos the usual protest shmo-test stuff doesn't seem to be waking up that many more people to what's going on. The Holy Name 6 got the discussion going again and there's a lot to be said for that. If only we could get all the complainer critics fired up enough to go out and do their own "better" actions! C'mon armchair radicals, get out there and show us how to stop this war of terror!

This was idiotic. The Catholic Church and Cardinal George are opposed to the war. I have been opposed to the war from the beginning and have even attended protests against it, but this is counterproductive and will just turn people against the anti-war movement.

It was gutsy, freedom-loving act. It has had a very positive impact on informing people of the realities of the war and President Bush-Cheney's abuses of power, as can be seen by the responses here and at this site:
wis.dm/questions/494666

i think it's funny that everyone is up in arms about these folks distrupting a religious service. people have used this tactic for decades. anyone remember when ACT UP staged a die-in at St. Patrick's Cathedrel in new york and 134 people were DRAGGED out of this place of worship by police and arrested?

just as ACT UP activists, these courageous young people brought the war directly to the powerful people that are letting it continue. disruption is a very effective tactic, whether it is in congress, at a meeting, or in a church. let us not forget that!