the rally kicked off

Voting themselves to Paradise

Any pictures from the 'imperialist' bloc?

did they stop the war?!?!

Here's a link to these photos, and more, that we're collecting of all aspects of Oct27chicago, that we're building, and linked on the website. Please send any you want to share to us.

www.flickr.com/photos/solidarityeconomy/

It's known, amongst organizers, the outreach to church, 'minority' communities, etc has been a challenge. Especially seeing so many white faces in the crowd of most of these types of events. But WHY does Carl (or anyone else that may do this for that matter) tokenize any 'person of color' when a picture or a contingent comes out? Its a disgrace and I'm offended by it. People are not tokens, be it black, white, brown, christian, muslim, athiest, democrat, socialist, whatever. This manor of 'identifying' perpetuates the problem. So much for being treated equally.

Tokenize?

What in the world are you talking about?

For goodness sakes, this was one event where you would have to work hard to take a picture WITHOUT people of color in it. The one of youth above is one of them, but I put it up with the rest nonetheless.

All those youngsters from T.W.O. decided quite independently of me to put themselves right up front and center. I had something much more old-fashioned in mind, but it worked out just fine the way they wanted it.

Same with the union groups. You can't take a picture of hardly any of them without getting a rainbow.

Sigh and LOL...'tokenizing' people of color, apparently by not putting enough white faces forward...Good grief, you can't lose for winning, or win for losing, however it goes...

It was this specific comment made on your picture page "March enters Fed Plaza, with 100s of African-American youth from T.W.O in the lead"...have to point out 100s of African-American youth.... I don't see a picture of another 'specific group' of people identified as such, for example: 100s of older white people sit at federal plaza waiting...or white woman Joan Davis of VVAW....keep on keepin on. *%&#)$*

It's good that the organizers managed to get so many different groups and organizations from all over the midwest to turnout their membership, but - there didn't seem to have been much outreach to the "general public."

Coming home on the CTA after the march, a lady asked us what was with all the people were marching around with signs downtown. We told her that it was a march against the war. "Oh, really?" she said. "I would have gone if I would have known about it."

Now, who knows whether she actually would have gone or not, but the point is that she didn't know - which makes sense, because (as far as I know) there wasn't anything announcing the march in the newspaper or on tv or on the radio.

None of my friends in Chicago - even the ones who are fairly politically conscious - knew about this march until I told them.

Even if people don't turn out, it makes a difference if they know about these kind of events beforehand - if nothing else, so that they have some idea what's going on when they see a bunch of people marching around with signs downtown.

The majority of the American people oppose the war. That's at least 150 million people. If we could get just 1% of the people who oppose the war to turn out, we would have 1.5 million people marching across the country.

There is a certain number of people who will show up at a march or a rally for just about anything. That's great, and we need those people.

But if we really want to make a difference, we need to get more of the people who DON'T normally go to these kinds of events - who wouldn't normally even THINK about going to a march or rally - to start showing up.

We had 30-second spots on four different Clear Channel stations the week before that we paid for. You can listen to them even now on the web site, and we know they were heard and drew a response.

We had CLTV a few days before feature a map on how to participate and a pointer to our web site.

WBBM-AM broadcast several different stories and interviews with me, right up until the morning of the event.

WGN also had a pre-event piece, as did Chicago Tonight.

Univision did an interview with Jesus Garcia for Spanish media, and Maldonaldo promoted it as well.

Cliff Kelly had Ra Chaka on for a good interview and took calls from listeners on Talk Radio.

The Trib did a short piece announcing it the day before.

Last but but not least, we had two 'Live from the Heartland' Shows on Saturday mornings.

That's what I know about off the top of my head. One always needs more media for these things, but we made a decent effort and got some results. I wish the folks you mentioned had found out about it earlier, too.

Clear Channel? How about print ads in the Defender or Reader?

Wow - that is pretty good.

I wasn't trying to be an ass, I just didn't know about any of this.

Do you believe it, the pro-capitalist shill for the other war party, cal d. admits to giving money to clear channel. What a fucking disgrace. Despite watering down the event on Sat. to mean next to nothing. It was just an average turnout for Chicago people. Nothing at all big. But they got to see and hear pro-war jan, pro-war danny and pro-war louis, what a "Historic" event. Pro-war asshole politicians lying to peacepeace people. The whole fucking thing was disgraceful. And it realy didn't come anywhere close to delivering the masses the liberals claimed.

As i have stated many times before on this newswire, unless most of the people out there oct27, do something everyday from now on, it meant nothing.

In fact with tv newscasts showing these pro-war politicians at a anti-war rally, this thing was a direct assault on the Peace Movement. davison and his liberal assholes have, for people watching tv Sat. equated those three scumbag democraps with the Peace Movement. That is what they really wanted, to try to deceive people into believing the democraps are really anti-war. Sat. was a huge step back for the anti-war Movement in Chicago. Shame and more than shame on the "Central Committee" for every part of this charade.

If you want to inform the African-American and other key constituencies in this town, with the greatest outreach for the least money, especially among those who rarely read the Reader or even the Defender, you pick a few targeted Clear Channel stations.

A few years back, we tried to buy antiwar ads from them, and we were refused. This time, now that the tide has changed, it seems our money was OK.

For the life of me, I never cease to be amazed with some of these posts. In one we're criticized for not getting on Radio, then when we do...

Besides, what in the world does this critique of Clear Channel, which I share, have to do with ending the war in Iraq? I know they defend the war editorially, but I'd buy an ad in the damned Washington Times or the National Enquirer if it would help stop it, and we had the resources, wouldn't you? Or do you think your political virginity trumps the suffering in Iraq?

Goodness, a few efforts back, I appeared on Fox News to get out the vote on the antiwar resolution on the ballot, and promote our struggle in general. Should I have avoided that, too?

Hang it up, guys, you're starting to look ridiculous, and just making my case for me over and over. But I guess you have no clue as to how ridiculous this sounds outside of this relatively small circle. But that's part of the problem too, I suppose.

Not quite. Absolutey nothing's gonna top CAWI's Marilyn Katz and her giddy announcement from the stage that a record breaking 30,000 people were in the streets, right in front of her. I saw at one older activist from Indiana standing near the stage, calmly sipping the coffee accidentally snort it up his nose and burst into laughter when she dropped that little jewel.

One for the history books ...or the Colbert Report.

Tell the truth now, 'LOL,' haven't you ever been giddy and over the top? Watch out now, some folks have long memories...

Sorry, Carl, but I try and reserve my giddiness for the White Sox going to the Series. BTW, is Marilyn a Cubs fan?

No cal, you are the one that looks more and more rediculous1 You and you alone continue to defend the charade that Sat. was. What of the 80,ooo? Many dozens of activists have attacked the Sat. sham and only you, among the "Central Committee" continues to defend the undefendable. The tens of thousands garbage was very far removed from reality!

The numbers Sat. mean very little. There are almost 10 million people in the area. And many million more in the other 7 states this disgrace event was supposed to represent. 5 or 10 thousand, either one, is a drop in the bucket. And of those 10 million plus, how many know the farce on Sat. happened? Probably only a few humdred thousand. And most of them got cal's message that the democraps's are an anti-war party, on the capitalist news. And what again will they be doing this week against the war? For the "Central Committee" registering, camapaigning and voting democrapic are the only options. What a right wing war friendly bunch.

Stop the war by day in day out activism, not once a year support the warmongers shams.

Well, 'Fred,' what's more to be said at this point?

You'll do it your way, and we'll do it our way.

We'll work together when we can, but keep on keepin' on any which way when we can't, until we stop this horrible war and develop some strength to prevent new ones on the horizon.

I was just sorry to see how the local politicians (who have never participated before) insisted they had to be up front pushing other groups that have participated before to the rear. There was even some pushing and shoving. Next time politicians to the rear! Also who were those people who were acting like cops at the front telling people what to do? Next time let the young Anarcho's up front.

'Next time let the young Anarcho's up front...'

I thought you guys were against hierarchies.

If everyone was up front, we wouldn't have a march. But maybe we could make a human chain in a big circle around the Loop, like we did when we tried to 'Levitate the Pentagon' back in the daze.

Levitate 'Da Mare' & Chicago! Go for it, but remember you heard it here first!

Let's repeat that cal told us that his "Central Committee" paid CLEAR CHANNEL for 4- 30 second spots. What amounts to Peace Movement money going to a pro- g W butch, pro-republicrap indoctrination organization. So now some of the Peace Movement's money gets to rabid pro-war types, thanks to davison and his ilk. cal said,"I'd buy an ad in the damned Washington Times". This is at least the second time we have noted davison use the term I. Our Movement uses the terms we and us. Use of the "I" once again proves the totally top heavy way last Sat. was organized.

So about giving Clear Channel money:

Did a meeting on those Thursday morning approve giving Peace Movement money to C C?

The people at that meeting who approved using money in that way, should now defend it. Not davison, alone.

What do you think the thousands of people dooped into coming here last Sat., would think about finding out money they sent to oct27 organizers, was paid to C C?

Does cal understand what a tyrant he is acting like when so many of the things they did were criticized and only he defends them?

Most importantly ?, how did giving Peace Movement money to C C work out? Sure doesn't seem as though it brought out the masses. But Clear Channel is using some of that money to fund their radical right wing agenda. Shamefull.

Let's repeat that cal told us that his "Central Committee" paid CLEAR CHANNEL for 4- 30 second spots. What amounts to Peace Movement money going to a pro- g W butch, pro-republicrap indoctrination organization. So now some of the Peace Movement's money gets to rabid pro-war types, thanks to davison and his ilk. cal said,"I'd buy an ad in the damned Washington Times". This is at least the second time we have noted davison use the term I. Our Movement uses the terms we and us. Use of the "I" once again proves the totally top heavy way last Sat. was organized.

So about giving Clear Channel money:

Did a meeting on those Thursday morning approve giving Peace Movement money to C C?

The people at that meeting who approved using money in that way, should now defend it. Not davison, alone.

What do you think the thousands of people dooped into coming here last Sat., would think about finding out money they sent to oct27 organizers, was paid to C C?

Does cal understand what a tyrant he is acting like when so many of the things they did were criticized and only he defends them?

Most importantly ?, how did giving Peace Movement money to C C work out? Sure doesn't seem as though it brought out the masses. But Clear Channel is using some of that money to fund their radical right wing agenda. Shamefull.

Actually, the CC ads worked well, both in the African-American community and elsewhere.

I use the 'I' when I'm speaking for myself, and I take responsibility for what's said by putting my name on it. Also, that way, no one else has to defend any of my screwups.

But I'd be interested in seeing your list of corporate media that's politically correct, and OK to buy ad space on, and those that are not.

I've suggested others jump into these debates, but to tell the truth, most I've talked to think it's too silly, too backward or too tiresome to bother, if they even heard of Indymedia. But I haven't given up on you yet. There's still some good souls that need saving here...

Probably Last Comment.

So lets list the historic nature of last Sat.
compared to the other 15+ major demos since 9-11:

A Budget of we hear $50,000, much more than any 4 or 5 of the previous major demos.

At least one paid organizer, cal davison. Organizers for previuos demos were not paid.

Involvement of pro-war politicians, every step of the way. Unprecedented.

Paid ads on right wing radio stations! Unprecedented.

And every report says the same thing, well over 90% of the people last Sat. had been to demos before. These unprecedented excesses and pandering to the other war party netted no significant increase in participation. Most importantly, no real increase among people of color and youth. Last week was a joke. And it's real contribution was to try to deliver confused anti-war people to working for and voting for a pro-war asshole like Hilldog clinton. What a fucking disgrace.

So as always, let's hear from some other oct27 organizer but cal. Say it again, they are way too busy on democrap or city of chicago websites.

Let's end the war by doing something against it everyday. Not by once every FIVE years pro-democrap rallies.

STAND UP AGAINST WAR

OK 'Fred M' or whatever..

Let's deconstruct a little...

'Probably Last Comment...'

>>I hope so, but unlikely

++

'So lets list the historic nature of last Sat.
compared to the other 15+ major demos since 9-11:

A Budget of we hear $50,000, much more than any 4 or 5 of the previous major demos.'

>>Didn't get there, Fred, about $10,000 short. But don't you think we should try to get even more, if we're really going to stop this?

++

'At least one paid organizer, carl davidson. Organizers for previous demos were not paid.'

>>There were three, Fred, at sub-minimum wage, and all of us taking a hit. What's pitiful, is your celebration of even more amateurish standards preventing us from coming to scale.

++

'Involvement of pro-war politicians, every step of the way. Unprecedented.'

No, all of them have spoken previously at antiwar rallies in Chicago, except perhaps Smith and Preckwinkle. And the fact that you consider them 'prowar' rather than antiwar reveals the problem, doesn't it? That's your albatross to bear. The vast majority of the antiwar movement will continue working with them, critically when necessary, and try to get even more on board if we're to end this war.

++

'Paid ads on right wing radio stations! Unprecedented.'

>>No, we tried 'Clear Channel' a few years back, but they refused our ads, and we had to use stations that didn't reach as well. This time, they took our purchase of a few targeted spots, which helped us. If putting ads on stations owned by right-wingers isn't kosher for you, what's your list of politically correct left-wing stations? The only one I can think of that comes close, apart from 'Live at the Heartland,' is owned by someone deep in Hillary's campaign, so that would be a 'pro-war no-no' in your book too, I'd guess. I'll just plead guilty here.

++

'And every report says the same thing, well over 90% of the people last Sat. had been to demos before. These unprecedented excesses and pandering to the other war party netted no significant increase in participation. Most importantly, no real increase among people of color and youth.'

>>Not even close, Fred. I've talked with many groups, gotten reports on who was on the buses, from the Chicago area and out state, I've talked to the organizers of the union contingents, and the South Side contingents, and you're simply dead wrong on every count. Just look at the photos and 'You Tube' videos, and if you're serious, you'll see the difference

++

'Last week was a joke. And it's real contribution was to try to deliver confused anti-war people to working for and voting for a pro-war asshole like Hilldog clinton. What a fucking disgrace.'

>>Ahhh, now we're getting to something, 'confused antiwar people,' that's rather elitist of you, isn't it, Fred? Why not simply say they have a different viewpoint, favor one or another candidate, or just have a different idea? Why are you 'unconfused' while they are 'confused'? Besides, hardly any of us are backing Hillary anyway, at least none I know. I'm a Richardson, Kucinich, Gravel, Green fan. It's easy to call it a 'joke' and 'fucking disgrace' here, but if you chanted that from the sidewalk on Oct 27, people might have lumped you with a few of our other sidewalk critics. Just take your assessment to the next meeting of any of the labor or community groups and run it by them, and see if they're 'confused' too.

++

'So as always, let's hear from some other oct27 organizer but carl. Say it again, they are way too busy on democrap or city of chicago websites.

Let's end the war by doing something against it everyday. Not by once every FIVE years pro-democrap rallies.

STAND UP AGAINST WAR'

>>Sorry, Fred, my other organizers think I waste my time here, or don't even know about this forum, but I invite them anyway, and still haven't given up on you and others here, even if you've given up on us. But I will unite with your last line, 'STAND UP AGAINST WAR!'

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