‘It reminds me of Iraq under Saddam,” a militant opponent of Saddam Hussein said angrily to me last week as he watched red-capped Iraqi soldiers close down part of central Baghdad so the convoy of Nouri al-Maliki, the Iraqi Prime Minister, might briefly venture into the city.

Five years after the invasion of Iraq, the US and the Iraqi governments claim that the country is becoming a less dangerous place, but the measures taken to protect Mr Maliki told a different story. Gun-waving soldiers first cleared all traffic from the streets. Then four black armoured cars, each with three machine-gunners on the roof, raced out of the Green Zone through a heavily fortified exit, followed by sand-coloured American Humvees and more armoured cars. Finally, in the middle of the speeding convoy, we saw six identical bullet-proof vehicles with black windows, one of which must have been carrying Mr Maliki.

The precautions were not excessive, since Baghdad remains the most dangerous city in the world. The Iraqi Prime Minister was only going to the headquarters of the Dawa party, to which he belongs and which are just half a mile outside the Green Zone, but his hundreds of security guards acted as if they were entering enemy territory.

Five years of occupation have destroyed Iraq as a country. Baghdad is today a collection of hostile Sunni and Shia ghettoes divided by high concrete walls. Different districts even have different national flags. Sunni areas use the old Iraqi flag with the three stars of the Baath party, and the Shia wave a newer version, adopted by the Shia-Kurdish government. The Kurds have their own flag.

The Iraqi government tries to give the impression that normality is returning. Iraqi journalists are told not to mention the continuing violence. When a bomb exploded in Karada district near my hotel, killing 70 people, the police beat and drove away a television cameraman trying to take pictures of the devastation. Civilian casualties have fallen from 65 Iraqis killed daily from November 2006 to August 2007 to 26 daily in February. But the fall in the death rate is partly because ethnic cleansing has already done its grim work and in much of Baghdad there are no mixed areas left.

More than most wars, the war in Iraq remains little understood outside the country. Iraqis themselves often do not understand it because they have an intimate knowledge of their own community, be it Shia, Sunni or Kurdish, but little of other Iraqi communities. It should have been evident from the moment President George Bush decided to overthrow Saddam Hussein that it was going to be a very different war from the one fought by his father in 1991. That had been a conservative war waged to restore the status quo ante in Kuwait.

The war of 2003 was bound to have radical consequences. If Saddam Hussein was overthrown and elections held, then the domination of the 20 per cent Sunni minority would be replaced by the rule of the majority Shia community allied to the Kurds. In an election, Shia religious parties linked to Iran would win, as indeed they did in two elections in 2005. Many of America’s troubles in Iraq have stemmed from Washington’s attempt to stop Iran and anti-American Shia leaders such as Muqtada al-Sadr filling the power vacuum left by the fall of Saddam Hussein.

The US and its allies never really understood the war they won that started on 19 March 2003. Their armies had an easy passage to Baghdad because the Iraqi army did not fight. Even the so-called elite Special Republican Guard units, well-paid, well-equipped and tribally linked to Saddam, went home. Television coverage and much of the newspaper coverage of the war was highly deceptive because it gave the impression of widespread fighting when there was none. I entered Mosul and Kirkuk, two northern cities, on the day they were captured with hardly a shot fired. Burnt-out Iraqi tanks littered the roads around Baghdad, giving the impression of heavy fighting, but almost all had been abandoned by their crews before they were hit.

The war was too easy. Consciously or subconsciously, Americans came to believe it did not matter what Iraqis said or did. They were expected to behave like Germans or Japanese in 1945, though most of Iraqis did not think of themselves as having been defeated. There was later to be much bitter dispute about who was responsible for the critical error of dissolving the Iraqi army. But at the time the Americans were in a mood of exaggerated imperial arrogance and did not care what Iraqis, whether in the army or out of it, were doing. “They simply thought we were wogs,” says Ahmad Chalabi, the opposition leader, brutally. “We didn’t matter.”

In those first months after the fall of Baghdad it was extraordinary, and at times amusing, to watch the American victors behave exactly like the British at the height of their power in 19th-century India. The ways of the Raj were reborn. A friend who had a brokerage in the Baghdad stock market told me how a 24-year-old American, whose family were donors to the Republican Party, had been put in charge of the market and had lectured the highly irritated brokers, most of whom spoke several languages and had PhDs, about the virtues of democracy.

There was a further misconception that grew up at this time. Most Iraqis were glad to be rid of Saddam Hussein. He had been a cruel and catastrophically incompetent leader, who ruined his country. All Kurds and most Shia wanted him gone. But it did not follow that Iraqis of any description wanted to be occupied by a foreign power.

Later President Bush and Tony Blair gave the impression that overthrowing the Baathist regime necessarily implied occupation, but it did not. “If we leave, there will be anarchy,” friends in the occupation authority used to tell me in justification. They stayed, but anarchy came anyway.

In that first year of the occupation it was easy to tell which way the wind was blowing. Whenever there was an American soldier killed or wounded in Baghdad, I would drive there immediately. Always there were cheering crowds standing by the smoking remains of a Humvee or a dark bloodstain on the road. After one shooting of a soldier, a man told me: “I am a poor man but my family is going to celebrate what happened by cooking chicken.” Yet this was the moment when President Bush and his Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, were saying that the insurgents were “remnants of the old regime” and “dead enders”.

There was also misconception among Iraqis about the depth of the divisions within their own society. Sunni would accuse me of exaggerating their differences with the Shia, but when I mentioned prominent Shia leaders they would wave a hand dismissively and say: “But they are all Iranians or paid by the Iranians.” Al-Qa’ida in Iraq regarded the Shia as heretics as worthy of death as the Americans. Enormous suicide bombs exploded in Shia marketplaces and religious processions, slaughtering hundreds, and the Shia began to hit back with tit-for-tat killings of Sunni by Shia militia death squads or the police.

After the Sunni guerrillas blew up the Shia shrine in Samarra on 22 February 2006, sectarian fighting turned into a full-blown civil war. Mr Bush and Mr Blair strenuously denied that this was so, but by any standard it was a civil war of extraordinary viciousness. Torture with electric drills and acid became the norm. The Shia Mehdi Army militia took over much of Baghdad and controlled three-quarters of it. Some 2.2 million people fled to Jordan and Syria, a high proportion of them Sunni.

The Sunni defeat in the battle for Baghdad in 2006 and early 2007 was the motive for many guerrillas, previously anti-American, suddenly allying themselves with American forces. They concluded they could not fight the US, al-Qa’ida, the Iraqi army and police and the Mehdi Army at the same time.

There is now an 80,000 strong Sunni militia, paid for and allied to the US but hostile to the Iraqi government. Five years after the American and British armies crossed into Iraq, the country has become a geographical expression.

‘Muqtada al-Sadr and the Fall of Iraq’ by Patrick Cockburn is published next month by Faber & Faber.

©independent.co.uk

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48 Comments so far
Publicola March 16th, 2008 9:50 am
It should surprise no one with a sense of history that Iraqis would not tolerate another invasion in Mesopotamia. Lacking any such perspective, the American idologues unleashed the dogs of war and chaos, most of whom had never served in a military or seen the horrors of war.

With the bill expected to total $3 trillion dollars, there are still many pundits and political capmiagners that believe the invaders and occupiers should remain indefinitely. This way, indeed, madness lies. The blowback for this illegal, immoral occupation will be severe and longlasting. We have only seen hints of the gestation process.

Woe to the downpressors!

drwu March 16th, 2008 10:53 am
Cockburn, as usual, is on the mark. Much more astute than the John Burns stuff you find in the Times. Here’s the 7PM news report from Iraq -when they bother to report.

7 PM nightly Iraq war report:

Things are going well. Freedom is on the march. Less bombings and killings but we still have a long way to go since the country is in ruins, there are no jobs, soldiers get blown up regularly and a few stray rockets always seem to go off in the wrong places. Overall, the Pentagon says: “we’re cautiously optimistic; what we’re doing seems to be working.”

Repeat over and over again for the next 50 years (which is what the British did before they finally left) or before the oil runs out.

frank1569 March 16th, 2008 10:55 am
Numbers wise:

Iraq - 1 million dead, 3 million wounded, 4 million refugees.

Total: 8 million human beings totally f**ked, for oil.

That would be like - the entire population of New Jersey destroyed; 2 Kentuckys; 4 New Mexicos; 8 Rhode Islands; 16 Wyomings.

And, according to a recent USA/Gallop poll - 76% of Republicans still support bush.

peace coup March 16th, 2008 11:01 am
There are so many lies being told about this war…
…and so many things being ignored or covered up.

We need to keep talking about this war because the monopoly media
only cares about things that generate audiences, ratings, and profits.
War is profitable for media companies, but failed occupations are not.

pete7651 March 16th, 2008 11:13 am
there is no war in iraq, this is an occupation.

i have seen this pointed out on more than one occasion, and the title of this article has it right…whenever someone begins talking about this “war” i am always quick to re-frame the conversation in this way, because it really has been five years of OCCUPATION.

josephmorton March 16th, 2008 11:22 am
Demonstrates a British view that is realistic and confirms what is reported by other reporters who are not beholden to the U.S. press for jobs. Compare with the remarks of John Burns in todays NYT; Burns is nothing but a falk for Iraq hard liners who see “democracy” rather than misery from the occupation.

gde March 16th, 2008 11:34 am
“Iraq is a country no more. Like much else, that was not the plan.”

I agree with the first sentence, disagree with the second. As there was no real plan for Iraq to remain a viable country, by default the plan was that it would not be. I believe that was 100% deliberate. It is worthwhile to read Naomi Klein’s take on this in “The Shock Doctrine”.

AndyUK March 16th, 2008 11:48 am
I am glad to see this story coming via the Independant, particularly after the story regarding “revisionist” education, regarding Iraq, being taught in British schools.
We have to see more people willing to tell the truth, and not bow to so called “superior” powers, who can only deal in “spin” and propaganda.
This was a war based on lies and collusion of the evil, at least let us admit to the truth, and find an honest way out of this mess.

melmac78 March 16th, 2008 11:50 am
It would only be fitting if the world made the U.S. pay reparations for what we did to Iraq-destruction of the country and the people. This should be for the 1st gulf war, the sanctions in between and the current war and all the while we’re preaching about bringing them democracy and how wonderful we are that we got rid of Hussein. They could start by taking all of the profit from the war machine mfgrs. Maybe if it was harsh enough we would learn to watch closely what our idiot leaders are doing instead of waving the flag and following like sheep.

sandyk77 March 16th, 2008 12:27 pm
How can Iraq save their country after the US has bombed it into pieces? And everything Barack’s pastor said is the truth but white people can’t stand it. Get a grip, people, there is more to America than the supreme white race.
oH AND I’m over 50 and white and I love Barack & Michelle!!! I’m not a redneck idiot even if I am from Tennessee.

YES, WE CAN!!!!!

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 12:43 pm
we have 2 WARS WARS WARS RAGING for GREED!!!!!

the Democratic party is being destroyed because of HYPOCRISY!!!!

one war they hollar like crazy against .. the war to kill to make lower wages and and steal the oil… the powerful stealing the weaks money and lifestyle..

then these same people go totally silent about the number 1 war…. the powerful stealing ones LIVES for greed.. abortion!!!!… no reasonable person would hollar against one of these wars and NOT the other…..

so if anyone hollars against ONE of these wars and NOT the other they have such low logic they should be run out of voting booths with UGLY sticks and stopped from making decisions..

someone says over population…. like that is a reason to murder innocent humans… with over population and being born they have a CHANCE … with abortion there is NO chance… and they have a chance in GOD’s wise system he has set up

over populations… should india be NUKKED to help with over population… just totally stupid logic with people who support abortion.. actually the abortionists reasoning is the same as hitlers was… just UGLY stuff !!

god has a system of making life with progress……!!

what is this system???? its the law of the strong that will survive… with conception a human being is being brought by GOD… many are brought to bring BALANCE.. and this has ingredients that made the conception… its a PLAN for PROGRESS… these ingredients are what made the conception.. a very wise PLAN.

deaths will occur in real life but from the natural laws of the design that BRINGS PROGRESS.. law of the fittest.. and this is what makes PROGRESS…

people deciding AGAINST GOD with abortion will trigger another natural law to correct… destruction of the area as we see now with an imbalance of young to old..

SIOUX ROSE is correct on some issues but falls flat on the number one thing of GOD … she understands PARTS… like love and balance.. but she don’t understand how logic is the designed PART to guide ALL parts..

and if SIOUX rose was LOVE she would be totally against the poweful murdering the innocent weak from greed.. with abortion..

everything is governed and controlled by gods natural laws… and PAIN is the natural law he brings to correct errors…. we see that women who abort has more pain than others .. worse health … that is GOD saying NO.. and if people don’t listen to the first level of pain then he brings more severe pain of destruction to make sure the error is corrected…
..

WAKE up KNUCKLE HEADS !!!!!

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 12:50 pm
is bob casey penn democrats the people that say NO to BOTH of these type wars??? if so THEY are the ones to follow in a tidal wave of support

OldRascal March 16th, 2008 1:21 pm
Without a monopoly on violence there is no central government.

And without a universally recognized central government there is no monopoly on violence and therefore no peace.

And around in circles it goes.

I for one believe Cheney & his minions want it this way.

Easier to do their evil deeds in a climate of chaos, amidst a population splintered and at war with itself.

chessgames56 March 16th, 2008 1:42 pm
Ideas about God are not God, and often opposed to the ‘consciousness of love.’ The understanding of self, God, and the bigger picture as to the nature of man, are to be found in the present moment through AWARENESS, but NEVER in ideation and belief. Belief in God is an artifact of inattention, and only serves as an element of division. This is also true for ‘ideology’ in general. But the truth of this must be PERCEIVED.

JConrad March 16th, 2008 2:01 pm
Divide and conquer is an old imperial game !

formernadervoter March 16th, 2008 2:24 pm
sandyk77,
Actually read Obama’s plan, would ya?

he is not planning on leaving Iraq

And, in fact, he’s beefing up the already bloated military budget and moving more troops into Afghanistan—where another failed occupation continues.

800 military bases worldwide and counting. Sure to continue under Barack Obama (or Clinton or McCain).

canuckchuck March 16th, 2008 2:32 pm
Chaos in Iraq serves the interests of the American Oil Elite led by Bush and Cheney. While the Sunni, Shia and Kurds scuabble over who controls which patch of desert, the oil money slids effortlessly into American pockets, who use the chaos to justify jacking the price of a barrel of oil, and prepare to spill the violence over into Iran.

Once Iran is in American control, the Oil Elites will have a perfect line of control from the Persian Gulf to the Black Sea, consisting of Turkey, Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq and Iran in the south, and the new missle defence shield in Poland and Ukraine stretching from the Black Sea to The Baltic Sea in the north to effectively cut off Russia and the rest of Asia from access to the oil fields of the Middle East.

Look at a map sometimes…it is a classic game of RISK…and exactly the same reason that started the war with Japan..control of resources.

heavyrunner March 16th, 2008 3:29 pm
“Once Iran is in American control, the Oil Elites will have a perfect line of control from the Persian Gulf to the Black Sea, consisting of Turkey, Pakistan, Afganistan, Iraq and Iran in the south, and the new missle defence shield in Poland and Ukraine stretching from the Black Sea to The Baltic Sea in the north to effectively cut off Russia and the rest of Asia from access to the oil fields of the Middle East.” canuckchuck

There is no chance of that ever happening. Which isn’t to say that there are not idiots in Washington in positions of power who think it’s possible and that they have the “military might” to force it into existence.

The people who believe that are fools who have never visited those countries and know little about the geography or culture. The resistance will be persistent and in the end victorious and the invader will be ejected at his peril. That is the lesson of colonialism and it is astounding that we have a government dominated by people who have not learned that.

eddievalgould March 16th, 2008 3:33 pm
Yo chessgames65,

“Ideas about God are not God, and often opposed to the ‘consciousness of love.’ The understanding of self, God, and the bigger picture as to the nature of man, are to be found in the present moment through AWARENESS, but NEVER in ideation and belief. Belief in God is an artifact of inattention, and only serves as an element of division. This is also true for ‘ideology’ in general. But the truth of this must be PERCEIVED.”

Nice riff!!

mikepeters March 16th, 2008 4:23 pm
Colonialism. What is changing it’s dynamic is technology.

Making these ‘Wraitheon’ and death freaks think maybe they can kill them all?

If England had a hi-tech army would Ghandi have been Ghandi?

Ronald White March 16th, 2008 4:26 pm
“Once Iran is in American control…”

Is that wishful thinking ? It’s possible but highly improbable knowing that Iran’s retaliatory capabilities are sketchilly surmised by American Intelligence . As far as Asia ( Russia , China ) being cut off with no response , listen to what Putin and Jintao are quietly saying about a reponse to America’s possible bombing of Iran , never mind invasion and victory. It’s possible to win a lottery when the odds are 14 million to 1 ; it’s not probable

empirePie March 16th, 2008 4:39 pm
Money don’t have no soul.

Money don’t have no soul.
no soul

money don’t no which way to roll

for money don’t have no soul.
no soul

So why has money’s got the biggest role?
Why is the world a giant sweatshop on the dole?

With no relief as leaders say ‘lets roll’
And listen to their favorite poll

For Corporations always know their role
And their puppets always watch their pole.

A trillion dollar daily toll
Takes flight so plunder can delight
And give a few style and might
While we pander to their market right
For Corpos bottom line is tight.

What is the toll?
Has money grabbed your soul?

whatfools March 16th, 2008 5:25 pm
Five Years of Bush Occupation, America Destroyed

How high are our taxes now that our dollars only buy half as much?

COMarc March 16th, 2008 5:35 pm
Yes, they think they can kill them all.

I was recently on a business trip and stuck listening to one of our sales reps explain to me in a bar one night the vision of how it would work. He talked about wiping out generations. He was speaking of staying in Iraq for generations and murdering anyone who opposed us. He thought that staying there for 3 generations would do the job. And, while usually I can’t stand to listen to it, this does seem to be the same sort of talk I hear from Nazi media. And it fits with McCain and Bush talking about 50 year and 100 year wars and even with the Democrats saying it will be a long time before we withdraw.

So, yes, they are thinking of an insanely murderous and evil campaign of genocide that would make people like Stalin and Hitler sit up and say ‘wow’.

Of course, it won’t work. This same guy was telling me there were 50,000 Al-Qaida fighters in Iraq. I doubt that to start with. But, if its true, its even more scary. Because there were 0 when we started this war. We’ve killed a million or more people, we’ve brutalized a country with dissapearences and 1000 lb bombs in neighborhoods and torture and death squads, and in the process we’ve succeeded in raising Al-Qaida’s headcount from 0 to 50,000.

I shudder to think how many people our there will be willing to die to kill Americans if we try to continue this for 3 generations.

COMarc March 16th, 2008 5:38 pm
And yes, there are probably idiots in Washington who think they can ‘control’ a country of 60,000,000 when they can’t ‘control’ the country of 20,000,000 that they’ve already invaded. Not a snowballs chance of it happening, but these morons seem to be willing to create a lot of death and destruction along the way.

Anyone read Naomi Klien’s book about The Shock Doctrine last year? There’s big money to be made any time there’s chaos and destruction.

arkitekton March 16th, 2008 5:52 pm
from msnbc.com:
(www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23658239/)

*Ahead of the trip, McCain expressed worries that insurgents might try to influence the November general election with increased attacks in Iraq.

“Yes, I worry about it,” he said Friday in Springfield, Pennsylvania. “And I know they pay attention, because of the intercepts we have of their communications.”*

In other words, to bolster his commitment to the endless occupation by asserting that increased attacks will be because of terrorists trying to influence the US election, rather than because violence is still out of control in Iraq, McCain is leaking classified information?

Why am I not surprised?

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 6:32 pm
why don’t ralph nader STICK to his principle of hollaring about the harm of the powerful harming the weak…..

2 wars going ON… one is stealing the weaks money and the other is stealing the weaks lives.. abortion.. BOTH by the more powerful and both for greed and both creates a harmful future for ALL…

if nader would stay on his principle he could get some where… but him staying on just one of the greed murdering will get him no where…

bob casey from pa seems to hollar against BOTH…… that is who we should all follow !!

Quality Time March 16th, 2008 6:34 pm
Economy destroyed, environment destroyed, Iraq destroyed - and now we’re getting set to elect a Bush clone. Mission accomplished.

Ghawar March 16th, 2008 7:33 pm
Like gde, I think the condition of Iraq is exactly what was planned. It fact, I think it’s obvious. Look: fourteen PERMANENT military bases with big runways, and the world’s largest embassy situated on 105 stolen acres and surrounded by a fifteen-foot thick wall.

It is clear that the plan was to conduct military operations and oil business within these fortresses, and to weaken the surrounding society to the point where it could be no more than a slight annoyance, like flies that need to be shooed away now and then at a picnic. Some mighty fine story tellers, with the aid of television and a stupid audience, made it seem otherwise for a while to some.

————-

riverman, I want to tell you about my father. He’s 91 years old. He’s a decorated veteran of WWII. He held three jobs for a total of nearly sixty years. He raised a family, and he served on the town council for many years. He is a deeply religious man who has helped many people in this community both spiritually and practically.
Now it happens that my father’s religious devotions of more than seventy years require the use of a fresh abortus each day. How he obtains this material is no one’s business but his own and his god’s. Must you hold his deeply held beliefs against him because of the bigotries and ignorance of the few? I dare you to look this man in the eye and tell him he’s not a good citizen and loving father. How dare you, Sir, HOW DARE YOU!

johnycanuck March 16th, 2008 7:43 pm
I can’t recall where i read it, but there was an article about the petro dollars vs. the euro as the ” reserve” money used in oil deals.

3 things struck me

1. just before the illegal occupation of Iraq, Saddam was insisting on euros for the oil he was selling…

2. Iran wants to sell oil in euros not us dollars…

3 the Saudis would ”rather” buy and sell oil in euros, they say it is more stable than US dollars

so from these thing i can see the so called war is not about oil..it is about keeping the US dollar as the ”reserve” currency in the world…

do a little googling and I’m sure you will see what i mean… the Neocons and the MIC are sooo afraid that the buck is gonna lose out to the euro and that they will then have all these billions of US dollars not worth the paper it is printed on..can you imagine what will happen if the Euro becomes the petro buck of the future..the Neocons can..so they are running scared shitless to kill anyone or thing that threatens their strangle hold on the oil economy via the us petro dollars.

just my take on it :]

Arcing March 16th, 2008 7:44 pm
“Vote for McCain and get more of the same.”

Siouxrose March 16th, 2008 7:48 pm
CO MARC: When I spent several months in Asia (2004) I befriended a wonderful Buddhist man who had ties in high places. When the human mind masters meditation doors of perception open that few mundane intellects can begin to imagine. He told me that the high Buddhists lamas believed that a time was coming of the ascent of the Muslim world.

RIVERMAN: It’s often the thing people rant most about that they themselves must learn. I will comment briefly since you made me a part of your posting today, and as is your habit, you’re leaving it as a response to various articles. First, I do NOT accept the Bible as GOD’S word. Second, the human mind is insufficient to recognize the substance and quality of this mystery we call GOD. All books and references are attempts at describing the ineffable. Having studied comparative religion and the teachings of many mystics, what works for me is the beauty and symmetry of the circle. The fact that Jesus chose TWELVE disciples and Abraham founded TWELVE tribes holds a resonance with the ancient view of the 12 thematic archetypes that comprimse the heavenly circle. With that being said, LOVE is one of the 12 paths… that of LEO, the heart. LOGIC, is another equally DIVINE path, and that of Libra. In coming to know these 12 qualities of Creator and Creation we recognize foremost that NO SINGULAR voice or persona speaks for all; and we have a basis for realizing that just as many notes make for lovely music, it takes all these 12 types (each of us a variation on one of these 12 archetypal themes) to make a world. WE are a living mosaic… through the integrated movement (interaction) of the parts, the whole grows and evolves. I have protested the idea that what’s taken for GOD is a hybrid of primarily Mars-like traits: raw power, vengeance, anger, etc. It’s punitive and this “Christian” nation also cleaves very much to punitive measures. We see this in our penal system and the obscene number of persons incarcerated; we see it in our love of war and the disgusting sums thrown at weapons and aggressive strategies; we see it in the lack of love.

Please do not presume to speak for MY spiritual beliefs. You are clueless as to what I have experienced and where my information comes from. Logic, is ONE of the God-given traits, but logic alone can make for a cold, lonely heart… and not a few serial killers were quite logical when it came to hiding evidence, but where was as Christ put it, the greatest of these? Love and caring for one’s neighbor, i.e. compassion in action. Take the board away from your own eyes before castigating others. And as for abortion, nature aborts routinely… no soul can be killed… the BIRTH canal can be blocked until the NEXT appropriate opportunity opens for said soul to enter. Since Jesus, in rising from the cross, showed the immortal quality OF the human soul, it’s amusing how many fall for the bull that he died for our sins. He never died, that was the whole point of the resurrection.

gde March 16th, 2008 7:56 pm
COMarc said: “Anyone read Naomi Klien’s book about The Shock Doctrine last year? There’s big money to be made any time there’s chaos and destruction.”

Per my comment above, yes I have, but MFriedman et al said there were profits to be made, not money. The reality, of course, is that wealth is destroyed so that more wealth can be forcibly purchased at garage sale prices, instead of at market value. In reality, that money is stolen, not made.

Money is made only when total wealth is increased, after accounting for any resource depletion and harmful effects. Many companies destroy money, but show a profit because they find a way to take money from others, ususally by forcing liabilities on them.

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 8:31 pm
SIOUX ROSE…….

you seem to understand some parts about balance and a DESIGN but after this part fall flat ..

how can you NOT understand the design of PAIN??? it seems you do not understand… PAIN is from god to help us when we go off track to help us from going further off track.. and if we do then he brings more severe pain to make sure we correct the error .. THIS in order to keep his design going as he planned for real progress as time goes on….

this progress is NOT in a straight line… its more like 3 steps forward and 2 steps back… these 2 steps back is when god brings pain to correct errors and THEN we are set to advance with 3 steps forward again…

sioux ROSE.. do you understand that women who have abortions has more pain than women who don’t.. alot more cancers from a weaker immune system and other pains… this is god giving pain and when he gives pain it is the same thing as him saying NO !!!

sioux rose can’t you also see the DESIGN of a man and woman together???… science has shown if subtractng the warrior and risk taking males which are ones with the lowest logic who are designed to take risks for humanity and die earlier…if subtracting then science says men have better logic and women have better memory intelect and can’t you see the design HERE… it is for the man to do the logic detective work of figuring out good from bad.. true from false and value from non value and then its the womans better memory for HER to remember this for the whole family….. ROSE this is THE REASON why christ gave the obey order to the wife NOT the husband he knew what science NOW is yelling out to people .. men have better logic !!

and the bible is not the word of god as much as the WORKS of GOD humans themselves…. one will know god by knowing humans.. by knowing what GIVES pain or joy to humans…

and recent science and medicine has given up a great understanding of GOD…. this shows us his design of men adn women and how to be used correctly for paradise and if not used correctly helluva life will come thru his correction pain..

it just so happens that recent science and medical studies are supporting christianity as the MOST correct religion…

nature and natural laws.. pan and joy are where one will FIND true religion .. and all these are pointing to christianity as the most true religion..

for example that difference in obeying… wife to obey the husband and husband to love the wife… this now has been PROVEN by science and is a natural law…. natural law is the correct religion… and it is pointing to christianity very strongly!!! low logics are MISSIING what science has found out…

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 8:39 pm
SIOUX.. it is LOGIC that places all other ingredients correctly… including the very valuable part of LOVE…

placing ALL the ingredients correctly and at the right time is what will bring paradise to ALL… this comes from the one highest in logic…. of course jesus had this…

phrophets are the ones to be the chiefs and the ones for all to obey they have the logic to see how life works…

onlya very high logic test for voting should be allowed… this then allows ONLY prophets to vote .. bring us all to paradise

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 8:41 pm
i talk about PAIN in order to check to see if someone does have enough logic to understand how life works…

PAIN is god speaking!!! who understnads THIS???? follow all science and medical studies that show pain to us.. then stop THAT action… this will lead us to paradise this SYSTEM !!

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 8:42 pm
abortion shows PAIN to a woman with a weaker immune system for life… this is god saying NO…

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 8:50 pm
this lite pain of abortion if not stopped .. GOD then will rachet UP the pain to make sure the error is correction .. destruction of the area….. we are starting this now with the imbalance of young to old that abortion has created !!!

we should NEVER ignore pain from god and all pain IS from GOD…

anyone that is an athiest.. has low logic…. we have science findings to prove we have a god and creator and recent science has proven his INTENT with his creation… and this INTENT is to bring his creations to the ULTIMATE paradise…. this now has been proven by science studies..
the correct interpretation of these studies will be done by the very high logics which are the prohets..

einsten saw the PROOF of god with understannding the big BANG and since then science has mostly proven this .. but recent psycholgical studies ALSO are proving things about god and the design…

FOLLOW the PAIN in order to understand the system and understand GOD!!!

whatfools March 16th, 2008 9:06 pm
GENEVA (Reuters) - Five years after the United States led an invasion of Iraq, millions of people there are still deprived of clean water and medical care, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Monday.

Just like millions of Americans under this corporate government.

deang March 16th, 2008 9:22 pm
The US intended to destroy Iraq as a country, and it did so by sowing social and political discord as well as by outright slaughter and physical destruction Right-wingers love that kind of stuff. And they have succeeded at what they set out to do. Iraq is no more.

skippyagogo41 March 16th, 2008 9:49 pm
Don’t feed the rivertroll! It’s whackier than a republican. More delusional than a horde of bushlovers. A vast sound and fury, signifying nothing.

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 10:16 pm
follow the PAIN to know what to do or not to do…. and if you don’t the pain will become more severe and destruction will come…

women who have abortions has a life time of worse health..

if this pain don’t stop this issue then the bigger pain comes to make sure it is stopped… DESTRUCTION!!!!

riverman101 March 16th, 2008 10:17 pm
this is a LESSON on HOW to HEAR GOD SPEAK!!!

Golddogs March 16th, 2008 10:41 pm
It was obvious that when the Museums in Iraq, which held the oldest artifacts of the oldest civilization in the World were left to thieves in the first days of the war, that this war was ONLY about obtaining Iraq’s OIL.

Iran is next.

KEM PATRICK March 16th, 2008 11:24 pm
Back about March of 2002, something happened that has always stuck with me, I can see it today as plain as it happened then.

A well dressed, middle aged Iraqi businessman, was talking with a CNN reporter in Baghdad. They were seated at an outdoor patio at a coffee shop and the man very quietly and in a soft but firm tone of voice said, ” The Americans army can invade our country, take over and arrest Saddam. But before it is all said and done, the Americans will wish Saddam was still in power and they had never come here.”

The reporter didn’t reply, they just sat there for a few moments in total silence and stared at one another. Right then at that moment, I had the sickening feeling that the man was absolutely correct. ___ The man was 100% correct, ___ and so was I, for having a sickening feeling that indeed he was.

KEM PATRICK March 16th, 2008 11:28 pm
When I opened this article to read it, I got a bad odor, as if something, or perhaps someone’s sewer had overflowed and polluted it. ____ Strange.

spencefi March 16th, 2008 11:29 pm
I have an idea for reminding the Dumbocrats in Congress about impeachment that will affect their pocketbooks. I don’t know why I’m not seeing this advocated everywhere… Whenever they send me a request for money, I return the request with a penny or two taped to it. I tell them I’d have given more money to reelect them, but first I need them to uphold the Constitution and start impeachment proceedings. When they do, they’ll get the rest of my contribution. I always put a stamp on the envelope, so at least I’m not costing them postage. If every patriotic Democrat did this, they’d have to do something. They need to know that we are out here. We are not wearing tin hats, we are using our logical, moral, and yes, patriotic brains to come to the conclusion that impeachment is ALWAYS on the table.

Mike Corbeil March 17th, 2008 12:16 am
” peace coup March 16th, 2008 11:01 am

There are so many lies being told about this war…
…and so many things being ignored or covered up.

We need to keep talking about this war because the monopoly media only cares about things that generate audiences, ratings, and profits. …”

NEED TO KEEP TALKING TO WHO about this war? It obviously wouldn’t do the 70+% of Republican supporters still supporting Bush-Cheney “venture” for rebuilding and expanding their idea of the Roman Empire any good. After all, if anything will be able to get through to such SOUL-[LESS] people, then it should be this weekend’s WINTER SOLDIERS event. If that fails to get through, then forget about trying to convert these ‘dumb animal’ warmongering Bush-Cheney supporters, and instead build up the opposition forces, I figure.

Ever try to get an undisciplined dumb animal to listen or obey, until it begins to behave in what’s sufficiently intelligent terms for us? I’d first want to put them through some disciplinary training, which, if we take a young puppy, f.e., can mean taking it and sticking its nose in or very nearly in its stools and urine spills-overs in the house, a technique I found to be effective; and one when with real animals can and should be done [gently]. Well, the Bush-Cheney supporters won’t respond to gentle approaches; not if they can not WAKE UP based on the Winter Soldiers series of testimonies, that is.

If they’re not paying attention to websites with opposite views from their own, so they’re still getting their “information” from the msm corporate news media, then they’re the dumbest of animals in existence, and being gentle surely won’t work with them. The alternative is to forget about them and build up the opposition until it succeeds in … regime change in the USA.

ANYWAY, if Saddam Hussein was only “cruel and catastrophically incompetent”, as Cockburn claims, then the West could use a good dose of this sort of non-optimal or non-ideal leadership. After all, even during the devastating and genocidal economic sanctios of 1991-2003, his govt saw to Iraqis, and without sect-based discrimination, having FREE educational and medical access, and helped out farmers when they were in need, f.e. WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING that GOOD in the West; not even in once-upon-a-time (past enough) respectable Canada.

He incompetently accepted to do “business” with the West though. While it probably would’ve cost him his life far sooner if he had refused to do “business” with the West, it would have nonetheless been the competent decision to make. After all, the West was never caring about either him or Iraqis, but only in Iraq’s natural resources, privatising Iraqi business for western capitalists, and rebuilding and expanding the Bush-Cheney sort of notion of the Roman Empire. Sooner or later, they would throttle the west’s drive behind this long-term plan.

Saddam should’ve never done business with the west and should’ve been very glad about Iraq having the leader it had prior to him working with the west to replace the anti-imperialist West govt already in place and doing greatly for Iraq. He was young, having read, over the past few days or so, that he was 26 at the time, and I guess he just was too hot-headed and couldn’t SEE clearly. After all, once he and the West overthrew the previous and great Iraqi govt, he maintained what the prior leader had established. Should have realised that he therefore really was for that leader, not against him; and if the problem had to do with the prior leader having been of a different religious outlook, then the leader did so greatly for Iraq that this religious difference should’ve been easily livable for Saddam and his Baathists.

I’m not expert on the topic, but this, the above, is what I’ve gathered so far for understanding. And he wasn’t cruel only towards Shia and Kurd, but also Sunni Iraqis, as I recall having read that the Sunnis of Fallujah also wanted him gone, for he had been cruel towards them, or enough of them; among other Sunni Iraqis who were victim of his regime. If they shut up, didn’t voice out opposition to his regime, however, then all I’ve gathered so far is that he didn’t exercise cruelty towards any Iraqis.

Demanding and enforcing secular govt was NOT a matter of incompetence; it was and is necessary. Within churches alone we have injustices committed by wrongful religious leadership against other members of the churches, so we definitely must NOT opt for theocratic govt of state.

If he was catastrophically incompetent, then I guess there’s no way to humanly express how extremely incompetent the West is and has long been; although some countries in the West have provided good at times, but then not very prolonged were these periods.

At least he didn’t deceive Iraqis into believing that they had a type of govt they didn’t have. In the west, govt, political leaders, and their many ‘dumb animal’ supporters who very much tend to vote blindly, maliciously and dementedly pretend that we have real democracies when we DO NOT and they know that we do NOT. At least he didn’t LIE to the Iraqi population the way most members of western govts spend their lives doing to or with us.

So before we have cocky westerners speak of Saddam Hussein’s regime as if we supposedly have regimes that can be considered honourable, I think it’s time for some [real] truth-telling.

What do you prefer, a harsh leader who doesn’t lie to you and who does a LOT of good for your country, or leagues of maliciously deliberate liars
treating us like we’re a bunch of dumb animals who can be led blindly by our noses to do whatever we’re f*cking told to do? I prefer to be with an honest leadership, even if it does require some diplomatic activism to try to get the govt to cease being cruel.

Iraqi women will never have life as respected and safe now, as they did under Saddam’s govt; a very important point and clearly indicative of serious competence on his part.

He had some flaws, but ….

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