in response to the other thread:

It seems to me that the people who are saying these bands are nice guys, might be right. they might have good social skills.. that is important when you are trying to influence people, politicians have good social skills.

it really doesn't take much actual research to see these bands are into some harmful stuff. i'm dubious even of a black person who defends them. i'm not being condescending, i'm treating them like i'd treat anyone i'm dubious of. and frankly, my first impulse is to think there is something seriously wrong with anyone who would defend these types of bands, whether they are whatever culture they are from. i figure, if a black person actually read the lyrics of these bands and was not angry, they are probably on meds. i don't think that's being condescending, i think it's just being open and honest about it. i have serious doubts about the person who opened up the other thread.

this is not to say i don't believe in free speech. but i think there is a difference between free speech and inciting. encouraging hateful behaviour, bragging about, suggesting and promoting hate crimes is different than free speech.. it's an actual action. it's a move from the theoretical or suggestive realm, into the actual, physical realm.

if an individual walked up to another individual and said things to hurt that person emmotionally, threaten their family, and suggest the world would be better with them not in it, that they want them DEAD, that would be a crime of defamation, and the person could sue for emotional damage, and have a physical restraining order put on that threatening person.

why should a band be able to do these things from a stage? hitler was an artist but the people in warsaw didn't like him being in their neighborhood, or france, or wherever.

as a resident of the neighborhood of the empty bottle, and as a musician and activist who has enjoyed that club over the years, i was really disappointed with initial the decision the venue made, and disappointed with the defense the owner put up. i think it was more ego than principle that caused him to hold out for so long. that's just my opinion though, but i know the guy is not dumb, in fact quite the opposite, his reasoning was faulty, and i think he just didn't want to admit he had made a mistake.

i took part in the movement to cancel the show, and made my neighbors aware of the situation. all kinds of neighbors, people of color, and survivors of fascism and stalinism in europe, none of whom really want that in their hood. i know they are happy the show was cancelled, and proud of the efforts made to cancel it too.

lincoln park can have that shit if they want it. that's one thing we are absolutely insistent about keeping out of here.. even if we can't stop the nauseating non-culture that seems to have crept in from the likes of lincoln park.

as for ARA, i don't think they are fascistic and certainly not the 'real NAZI's', i just think they are more dogmatic and authoritarian than they realize. there is a big difference. a word like fascism gets thrown around alot.

i do think white supremist groups should be confronted, and even militantly, but i think ara might have some trouble distinguishing things when they get the adrenalin pumping.

these ara people are a lot of very self-motivated people who, if we could get them to settle down a little and learn where the systemic manifestations of white supremecy arise in the local area here, would really be able to help affect very real and non-violent change... in the meantime, we'll abide in our patience till they are ready to do that.

jeez.. there's more white supremacy in the cook county justice system and the prison system that in the rock clubs, believe me.

get mad about that would'ya!!?