are there going to be non-us vets there? i fully support any veterans (against the war) events, but would love to see some salvadoran fmln vets, zapatista vets, palestinian vets, vets from the resistance to us invasions in viet nam, iraq, or elsewhere, etc.

are there flyers?

dear me:
this is exactly why the left loses in america. you think some high intellectual thought of making the world perfect and alienate the common man on the street. would the vietnamese allow american vets come to their veteran's function? get real. get your head out of a book and learn the heartland of america. they need smart aware people, not more elitism.

Needless to say, everyone is welcome at VVAW events. And in the past they have had vets from other countries and struggles, as well as political activists from countries under the boot of empire as well. It's just that its not always that pracitical to do so. See you on the 11th at 11...

get your head out of a readers digest, and realize how many Latinos and other immigrants there are that live all over this city and this country. you think Chicago's 'common man on the street' is a white north american? i dont see how having an internationalist, and anti-racist perspective is 'intellectual' or 'elitism.' and by the way, the vietnamese, of whom millions were killed by the empire, have worked with progressive US vets.

as for carl, see you on the 11th day of the 11th month at the 11th hour. nice post, as usual.

Dave and Kevin are angry. But they have selected the wrong targets.

One says that US vets "serve their country." This is untrue. They serve the bloated monied interests who own and operate the United States. They serve the interests of the rich men who send the poor and the workers to fight their wars.

Iraqi and Vietnamese fighters are "enemies" of the rapacious expoliters who want their oil and to control the world, but not of the vast majority of the American people.

We need to start celebrating the Irish-American troops who realized that they were fighting for US empire and went over to fight FOR the beseiged Mexicans in 1848. We ought to celebrate the African-Americans like David Fagan who led Filipino resistance fighters against racist US aggressors in 1900.

Having absorbed the bogus history taught in the flag waving books of US chauvanism, don't remain on that deadly course by believing what the George Bush's and Wolf Blitzer's of the world tell you.

Well...I see that my post was deleted, and that freedom of speech only applies to those who support your views. Fortunately I saved my original message anticipating that. Here it is...

I'm a veteran and I'm sorry, but I think it is completely wrong for your group to use Veterans Day as a backdrop for your protest. This is a day to remember and thank the men and women of our Military for serving this Country. And should not be used to voice your personal anti-Iraq-war message. Yes, you have every right to protest... but I strongly urge you choose a different day, as this will only cause anger within the veteran community (Just as it has angered me) - and take away from what this day is all about.

Dave - this action is being organized by Vietnam and Gulf war combat veterans. They have paid their dues. Many times over. In the boonies. Under fire. Goddamn right they have a right to speak out. Who better? Thank God they are still serving their country .. by speaking truth to power. You might try and learn something by their example.

Did I not say they have every right to protest?

This is not about denying anyone the right to speak out. This is about hijacking a day that's sole purpose should be to honor our vets. That's why I am opposed to this protest. It's the timing. It's selfish. That's why I'm angry. It should be common sense that you do not soil a day that should be about the vets. Not About whether or not you feel we should be fighting in Iraq. Do that Friday...Or Saturday...or whenever. But give the Vets their day.

Soiling the day? Gimme a fuckin break. The Vietnam and Iraq vets that are organizing this rally choose to speak out both against Bush's little adventure in Iraq, and for better treatment for those vets who have been treated like garbage by their own government. We will not be silent.

Want to know what will really disgrace Veteran's Day? When Dubya, Don Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the other Administration chicken hawks get up to pontificate tomorrow about the sacrifices average GI's make -- and then use the moment to shill for a a wrongheaded, obscene foreign policy that costs them nothing, and some 19 year old kid from Winnetka -- or Baghdad --everything.

Is the veteran community divided about the war in Iraq -- damn straight. So is the whole country.

And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda ..
- Eric Boogle


Now when I was a young man I carried me pack
And I lived the free life of the rover.

From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback,
Well, I waltzed my Matilda all over.

Then in 1915, my country said, "Son,
It's time you stop ramblin', there's work to be done."
So they gave me a tin hat, and they gave me a gun,
And they marched me away to the war.

And the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As the ship pulled away from the quay,
And amidst all the cheers, the flag waving, and tears,
We sailed off for Gallipoli.

And how well I remember that terrible day,
How our blood stained the sand and the water;
And of how in that hell that they call Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter.

Johnny Turk, he was waitin', he primed himself well;
He showered us with bullets, and he rained us with shell --
And in five minutes flat, he'd blown us all to hell,
Nearly blew us right back to Australia.

But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
When we stopped to bury our slain,
Well, we buried ours, and the Turks buried theirs,
Then we started all over again.

And those that were left, well, we tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire.
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
Though around me the corpses piled higher.

Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head,
And when I woke up in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, well, I wished I was dead --
Never knew there was worse things than dying.

For I'll go no more "Waltzing Matilda,"
All around the green bush far and free --
To hump tents and pegs, a man needs both legs,
No more "Waltzing Matilda" for me.

So they gathered the crippled, the wounded, the maimed,
And they shipped us back home to Australia.
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane,
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla.

And as our ship sailed into Circular Quay,
I looked at the place where me legs used to be,
And thanked Christ there was nobody waiting for me,
To grieve, to mourn and to pity.

But the band played "Waltzing Matilda,"
As they carried us down the gangway,
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared,
Then they turned all their faces away.

And so now every April, I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me.
And I see my old comrades, how proudly they march,
Reviving old dreams of past glory,
And the old men march slowly, all bones stiff and sore,
They're tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask meself the same question.

But the band plays "Waltzing Matilda,"
And the old men still answer the call,
But as year follows year, more old men disappear
Someday, no one will march there at all.


"Waltzing Matilda, waltzing Matilda.
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

And their ghosts may be heard as they march by the billabong,

Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me? "

-- Only the dates and locations are different.

THE CURSE IS AS FOLLOWS. READ IT CLEARLY. It is not intended for those who are misinformed by lies and propaganda. Nor is it for those who walk in genuine ignorance. RATHER IT IS INTENDED FOR THE WICKED MEN WHO KNOW FULL WELL WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WHO ARE CONSCIOUSLY
RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CRIME....
FROM THE GLOBAL BANKING MACHINE TO U.S. POLITICIANS...DOWN TO THE U.S. MILITARY COMMANDERS AND SOLDIERS...... YOU WILL CRY OUT IN SORROW ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT WHEN YOU WILL SEE BEYOND YOUR GREED! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BEAR THE BURDON OF YOUR SINS AGAINST THESE LITTLE ONES. EVEN NOW..YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND YOU DO NOT STOP. YOU WILL LIVE THE REST OF YOUR LIVES SEEKING TO DESTROY THE MEMORY OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE... BUT YOU WILL NEVER FIND REST IN THIS LIFE. YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SILENCE THE SCREAMING IN YOUR HEARTS.. and once you die..you will live in YOUR hell until you have re-lived theTERROR , the FEAR , and ALL of the SUFFERING which you have inflicted....through the eyes, minds, and hearts of every one of your victoms, including the suffering loss of the living.. who's loved ones have been maimed, or killed, and suffer every ramification of this MURDEROUS BEAST. MAY YOU LIVE THE PAIN OF EVERY BABY,CHILD, MAMA, PAPA, AND FAMILY WHO HUDDLE TOGETHER IN THEIR HOMES, FILLED WITH FEAR, SURROUNDED BY YOUR WICKED RAGE UNTIL DEATH FREES THEM . MAY YOU KNOW THIS FEAR AND AGONY.
THEN YOU WILL COWER ON YOUR KNEES AND BEG FOR MERCY...BUT YOU WILL FIND NONE...YOU WILL FIND NONE BECAUSE YOU SHOWED NONE. YOU WILL BE SERVED WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN... AND WHAT YOU HAVE GIVEN IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO BEAR.. MAY YOU SUFFER THE MIRROR OF TRUTH UNTIL EVERY PENNY HAS BEEN PAYED. -AMEN