Your view of CIMC and my posting to it are a little warped, for sure. Believe me, there's a whole wide world of youth activists out there, and venues for me to interact with them, who never heard of CIMC. Most of them these days are wearing Obama buttons. Check your nearest campus or high school.
No, the reason I like CIMC and other IMCs have much more to do with my efforts at online cybernews from the left long before Windows or Web Browsers, when the internet was all text. When Seattle brought you into being, it was a dream come true for me, even if dominated by the politics of the anarchist cul-de-sac. But I figure, hey, it's an open forum, and having recovered from my own anarchist youth, maybe I'll fly my neo-Bukharinite Gramscian Third Wave Red Flag and see what happens.
Fortunately, quite a bit has happened; unfortunately, not much in these quarters. Truth be told, I think you have a crisis in your own ranks as to 'what is to be done.'
Hooey, Davidson. If the debate between Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill's call for preserving a modicrum of progressive political independence in in order to pressure the Dems around the war and the latest "Progressives for Obama" strategy for "constructive engagement" is any indication, the crisis your sector of the movement faces is far more profound. Rumor (Sneed) has it that Edwards is poised to endorse Clinton, which should muddy the waters even further in places like Penn.
Still, it should be a hoot to watch your bud Hayden try and spin this little gem for the antiwar movement. It's gonna require a triple twist half gainer off the high board this time.
Obama Aligns Foreign Policy With GOP
By DEVLIN BARRETT – 12 hours ago
GREENSBURG, Pa. (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama said Friday he would return the country to the more "traditional" foreign policy efforts of past presidents, such as George H.W. Bush, John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.
At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush — father of the president — for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.
Obama began a six-day bus tour through Pennsylvania, the largest remaining primary prize in the contest with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic nomination. Sen. John McCain is the Republican nominee-in-waiting.
"The truth is that my foreign policy is actually a return to the traditional bipartisan realistic policy of George Bush's father, of John F. Kennedy, of, in some ways, Ronald Reagan, and it is George Bush that's been naive and it's people like John McCain and, unfortunately, some Democrats that have facilitated him acting in these naive ways that have caused us so much damage in our reputation around the world," he said.
Obama faced criticism in January from Clinton and then-challenger John Edwards for saying Reagan had changed the trajectory of American politics — and that Republicans had been the party of ideas for the last decade or more.
In one of the more heated moments of the Democratic debates, Clinton challenged him directly on the topic, saying those GOP ideas were "bad for America, and I was fighting against those ideas."
In his speech Friday night, the Illinois senator charged that Clinton, for all her criticism of the current President Bush, has too often gone along with his decisions.
"I do think that Sen. Clinton would understand that George Bush's policies have failed, but in many ways she has been captive to the same politics that led her to vote for authorizing the war in Iraq," he said. "Since 9/11 the conventional wisdom has been that you've got to look tough on foreign policy by voting and acting like the Republicans, and I disagree with that."
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said Obama "represents an absolute departure" from Reagan and other presidents "whose strength in the face of an outspoken and determined enemy won the greater peace for a generation."
There's nothing in Klein and Scahill that's substantively different from what we're doing. Wanna make a bet on whether they come out for Obama?
Very little spin is required on Obama's latest foreign policy missive. We said he's trying to represent and speak to the center, and this is a case in point. The best spin you could put on it is that it's a rejection of pre-emptive war, the NeoCon policy separating Bush Jr from Bush the Elder. I'm sticking to 'Out Now' and exposing the counter-insurgency crap, which is far nastier than this statement. That's why we set this up, so we don't have to spin Obama's every twist and turn. We can build on our views, pressure him and defend him vs the right, all at the same time. It's called politics.
But you guys never cease to amaze me with how little politics you have, as opposed to moralizing 'gotchca's' over correct lines. I just came from a meeting of 100 or so workers, white and Black, men and women, mostly from steel and related industries. We watched the Norman Soloman antiwar film. All these folks were for Kucinich, and they're all very aware of the differences between their guy and Obama, on both the war and health care. But now that Kucinich is out, they're very clear as to what they're next step is in this election. In short, they know their interests and fight for them, and they do it in the context of being engaged in real life politics. I can't tell you how refreshing it is compared to what passes for politics on CIMC.
Re: Re: Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Right
29 Mar 2008
Date Edited: 29 Mar 2008 08:44:39 AM
No, the reason I like CIMC and other IMCs have much more to do with my efforts at online cybernews from the left long before Windows or Web Browsers, when the internet was all text. When Seattle brought you into being, it was a dream come true for me, even if dominated by the politics of the anarchist cul-de-sac. But I figure, hey, it's an open forum, and having recovered from my own anarchist youth, maybe I'll fly my neo-Bukharinite Gramscian Third Wave Red Flag and see what happens.
Fortunately, quite a bit has happened; unfortunately, not much in these quarters. Truth be told, I think you have a crisis in your own ranks as to 'what is to be done.'
Comments
Re: Re: Re: Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Right
29 Mar 2008
Still, it should be a hoot to watch your bud Hayden try and spin this little gem for the antiwar movement. It's gonna require a triple twist half gainer off the high board this time.
Obama Aligns Foreign Policy With GOP
By DEVLIN BARRETT – 12 hours ago
GREENSBURG, Pa. (AP) — Sen. Barack Obama said Friday he would return the country to the more "traditional" foreign policy efforts of past presidents, such as George H.W. Bush, John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.
At a town hall event at a local high school gymnasium, Obama praised George H.W. Bush — father of the president — for the way he handled the Persian Gulf War: with a large coalition and carefully defined objectives.
Obama began a six-day bus tour through Pennsylvania, the largest remaining primary prize in the contest with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic nomination. Sen. John McCain is the Republican nominee-in-waiting.
"The truth is that my foreign policy is actually a return to the traditional bipartisan realistic policy of George Bush's father, of John F. Kennedy, of, in some ways, Ronald Reagan, and it is George Bush that's been naive and it's people like John McCain and, unfortunately, some Democrats that have facilitated him acting in these naive ways that have caused us so much damage in our reputation around the world," he said.
Obama faced criticism in January from Clinton and then-challenger John Edwards for saying Reagan had changed the trajectory of American politics — and that Republicans had been the party of ideas for the last decade or more.
In one of the more heated moments of the Democratic debates, Clinton challenged him directly on the topic, saying those GOP ideas were "bad for America, and I was fighting against those ideas."
In his speech Friday night, the Illinois senator charged that Clinton, for all her criticism of the current President Bush, has too often gone along with his decisions.
"I do think that Sen. Clinton would understand that George Bush's policies have failed, but in many ways she has been captive to the same politics that led her to vote for authorizing the war in Iraq," he said. "Since 9/11 the conventional wisdom has been that you've got to look tough on foreign policy by voting and acting like the Republicans, and I disagree with that."
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds said Obama "represents an absolute departure" from Reagan and other presidents "whose strength in the face of an outspoken and determined enemy won the greater peace for a generation."
Re: Re: Re: Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Right
29 Mar 2008
Very little spin is required on Obama's latest foreign policy missive. We said he's trying to represent and speak to the center, and this is a case in point. The best spin you could put on it is that it's a rejection of pre-emptive war, the NeoCon policy separating Bush Jr from Bush the Elder. I'm sticking to 'Out Now' and exposing the counter-insurgency crap, which is far nastier than this statement. That's why we set this up, so we don't have to spin Obama's every twist and turn. We can build on our views, pressure him and defend him vs the right, all at the same time. It's called politics.
But you guys never cease to amaze me with how little politics you have, as opposed to moralizing 'gotchca's' over correct lines. I just came from a meeting of 100 or so workers, white and Black, men and women, mostly from steel and related industries. We watched the Norman Soloman antiwar film. All these folks were for Kucinich, and they're all very aware of the differences between their guy and Obama, on both the war and health care. But now that Kucinich is out, they're very clear as to what they're next step is in this election. In short, they know their interests and fight for them, and they do it in the context of being engaged in real life politics. I can't tell you how refreshing it is compared to what passes for politics on CIMC.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Right
29 Mar 2008