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Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

I have been to every anti-war protest for this war. I was one of those protesting before the war and getting signatures for the (doomed) Iraq peace pledge before the war. I was one of those who marched on Lake Shore Drive and was illegally detained on Chicago avenue by the CPD five years ago. I was also protesting the Gulf war 17 years ago. All along I have been involved in the Labor Movement. With my years of activist experience, I have to say that this is the worst idea for a protest any of us has ever conceived; at least that I can remember. This action makes it even easier for the media to marginalize us. There are numerous local Catholic groups who show up at protests, and this action will cause some to abandon the movement as it makes it seem like the larger movement is anti-Catholic. It makes us look wild, thoughtless and stupid. It turns off the masses, which we will need to really ever create change. And the timing could have not been worse! Did anyone at all, for a second, think about the fact that Easter is the holiest day in the Catholic calendar? No, it is not Christmas, that day is just the most commercialized. This act on this day is very offensive. Also, why Catholics? Why not some foaming at the mouth evangelical preacher like Pat Robertson and his sheep? There are millions of them who still love Bush and love the war. This Pope is against the war, the last Pope was against the war (and he admonished Bush to his face about it even when Kerry would not), and most Catholics are against the war. Even if, as some are saying, George is not standing against the war, you have to consider the rest of the parish in attendance. Some of you have excused this, stating that the parishioners are all rich anyhow, which is only partly true. Many come from other neighborhoods to the cathedral on holy days. Many of them are rich, but against the war. Despite that, this could have been staged in a number of other places where George comes or goes. Finally, don't stop to justify everything single thing that fellow activists do. We do have to stick together, but realize that not all protest/civil disobedience ideas are wonderful. Some ideas are just stupid, and this is a perfect example. None of us is flawless and not all of us deserve to be protected from the consequences of bad decisions. Just accept the fact that this was a bad idea, and that now those involved have to deal with the fallout.
 
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Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

No sale, tipscommissar. A number of antiwar activists who support these kids can match or exceed your antiwar credentials -- including some who actually helped organize the marches you participated in - including those against the first Gulf war.

That the antiwar movement has made mistakes is certainly not disputable -- indeed the list is long and distinguished. But this was not one of them -- despite the fact that it exceeds your personal political comfort zone. No doubt other direct actions around the country aimed at demanding accountability from war profiteers, politicians, military recruiting centers, religious figures and media pundits may leave you feeling just as discomforted.

Ironically, you were asked in an earlier comment post if you had taken the time to talk with Catholic peace activists about their response to this action. You have yet to reply. But at least one veteran activist from the Catholic Worker movement has, in an open letter published on this and other websites and circulated nationally. More are on route. I suggest you take the time now and read them before purporting to speak for that sector of the movement.
 

Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

Still, 'tips' has a point, several in fact.

It seems now most of you are in pretty much of a defensive, 'damage control' mode. Am I wrong? Is this where you wanted to be?

I gave my support to it, despite knowing it would have mixed results.

But the real proof of the pudding is in the eating. Is the antiwar movement in Chicago now stronger, better organized, more united, and have more friends and influence as a consequence of this action or not?

Do an honest sum-up in a few weeks that involves everyone from CIMC to Dan Daley at Call to Action, and let us know.
 

Re: Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

Actually, this has galvanized support particuarly among religious peace activists. However, the overall impact remains to be seen. This is far from over.

Speaking of damage control and the antiwar movement, how are things with Progressives for Obama, your new project? Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill's latest broadside in the Nation arguing that progressives jumping on the Obama bandwagon are making a serious strategic mistake seems to have stirred up a hornet's nest.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

Progressives for Obama is doing very well, despite our critics, left and right. You can read the full range at the site, progressivesforobama.blogspot.com

The discussion is lively.

It's almost as interesting as the Beaver County Times, which has some great letters today.

Plus we've got our own bandwagon, no need to jump on Obama's or toe his line on everything. That's why it's set up independently. Klein, et al, are welcome to log on and spell out their alternative, if they like, and if they have one.

And we're gathering a very interesting list of participants, which will be up in a few days.
 

Re: Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

Carl,
Since you no longer live in Chicago I have no clue why you feel obligated (other than ego) to continue to comment on IndyMedia and local listserves. Hasn't it sunk in that nobody other than M. Katz and a handful of others care what you think?
 

Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

"Did anyone at all, for a second, think about the fact that Easter is the holiest day in the Catholic calendar?"

Interesting question. Wonder if those volunteers of the Irish Republican Brotherhood and the Irish Citizen Army who launched the Easter Uprising of 1916 were aware of that fact? Of course, they were roundly condemned by the Irish Church hierarchy at the time for just that. Ironic, ain't it?
 

Re: Re: TODAY: Vigil to End the War and Drop the Charges!

tips, thank you for the words. I think it's great the discussion this action has triggered. We should never stop discussing what is good strategy for our movement.

That being said, as a lifelong Catholic and someone who considers myself an activist, I would have to say that this action was wholly appropriate, even if not consisting of a completely refined message (but what action does?). Easter is certainly the most holy day in the Catholic calendar and so it is all the more appropriate for people of conscience to stand up and speak the truth about the sinful nature of our occupation of Iraq. Since the Cardinal isn't talking about it, I am glad that somebody did. It is a betrayal of Christian values to celebrate the risen Christ by words alone while our tax dollars go into this murderous war machine. Jesus was the Prince of Peace and it is utter hypocrisy to jail people for demanding justice for the unheard voices of the Iraqi people in a church of all places! If we cannot call for peace in the house of peace, then where does that leave us? If anything, these six were celebrating the Easter holiday in one of the most appropriate ways possible.

Public opinion of the actions is another question, and I am glad that we are taking the time to analyze that. Does this make us a stronger movement? Does this make us a weaker movement? Will Catholics stop supporting the anti-war movement now? Will Catholics begin to question their place in the church? What ultimate effect does this action have? I think we should see, but I do not think that immediate reactions should be the ultimate indicator for a successful action.
 
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