You wrote:
"you said that most LGBT people were insulted by the word queer, even though the poll had nothing to do with which word you are insulted by"
Again, stop being lazy, and read the study, rather than just spouting off. Here's what part of the narrative of the study reads:
"What do these findings mean? Some argue that the term 'gay' largely represents the experiences and identity of men, specifically White men. The empirical evidence shows, however, that among those most likely to self-identify as non-straight in the Black Pride sample, the term 'gay' (and, among women, 'lesbian') is primarily chosen and readily used. Nearly two thirds of men, and even 12 percent of women, chose 'gay' to describe themselves. Six in 10 women chose the term 'lesbian.' The evidence also indicates that there is a strong reluctance among Black GLBT people to use the term 'queer' as a primary identifier of their sexual orientation..."
And here's the kicker:
"The lack of identification as 'queer' might reveal the racism that Black GLBT people experience from White 'queer identified' activists in their organizations and campaigns, including their lack of outreach to Black GLBT communities. These White 'queer' activists are often thought to have greater access to resources and privilege, and to embrace a greater fluidity concerning their sexual practices and sexual identities, than most Black Pride respondents. These qualities are luxuries often missing in communities of color. Second, the rejection of the term queer might indicate that the radical promise that the term queer holds has not been embraced by Black GLBT individuals as an alternative way (and politics) of sexual identification. As Cathy Cohen states, 'In its current rendition, queer politics is coded with class, gender, and race privilege, and may have lost its potential to be politically expedient organizing tool for addressing the needs—and mobilizing the bodies—of people of color.'"
Coming from Cohen, someone who had previously self-identified as "queer," I'd say that's a pretty harsh judgment. One might even hazard to say that it's a view of the term "queer" as pretty damn insulting, to put it mildly.
As for your use of the term "queer" at our events, I didn't say anything in public the times you've done it as your use of the term is far different than when bigots use it, as has been discussed in several of the posts above. It may not be the term that I would recommend using to self identify, but I'm not going to tell others how they self-identify.
You write:
"... maybe its because every year and every event you have less and less people show up... and in order to get anyone to attend you invite the anarchists "
Get a grip on reality. Re: the war, the March 18th Chicago protest was the largest anti-war protest this city has seen since the March 20, 2003 march on Lake Shore Drive at the start of the war, which we also had a big hand in organizing. By many accounts Chicago's protest was also the largest protest in the country on the 3rd anniversary of the war. So hardly a case of "less and less people show up."
We heard through the grapevine that you were pissing on the whole notion of a Michigan Avenue march – fine – then organize your own alternative, rather than piss and moan AFTER the event like you do every year. Oh, sorry, you didn't do that because you knew that even LESS and LESS people would have shown up for your event!! For all your talk about me being "the pigs' lapdog on M18," I didn't exactly see you charging the barricades, macho man. You had tough talk about direct action and delivered exactly: NOTHING. I make no apologies about M18 being a "legal" march, because that's what people democratically decided to do. Now if you had used those people who had come to the event wanting to participate in a legal event as a shield for direct action, I would have had a huge problem with that. That's not what they had signed up for, and it would have been extremely manipulative for you have done so. So don't piss and moan about us keeping the thing legal. As it was, we had a running battle all day long with the police, with several shouting matches with them (while they videotaped us for "evidence"), with Ralph Chiezewski (sp?), Deputy Cmdr of the Central Business District, implicitly threatening to arrest me as late as 8:30 PM that night. Thank you very much, I'm still dealing with three charges from last year, with a court date on Monday, and Chiezewski testifying against me probably sometime next month.
If you're talking about attendance at equal marriage rights events, our last protest was virtually over when your group finally decided to show up, so don't judge the turnout there by what you (finally) showed up to see. I happen to know that not all of your number were very thrilled with your intervention at that event, so I wouldn't be so quick to speak for all of "the anarchists," if I were you. By the way, it was one of your folks who contacted us about attending, we said "great, let's talk about it," and then never heard back.
Speaking more generally, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why attendance is smaller today at marriage equality events than it was in the Spring of '04. People tend to show up for political events when they see a real possibility for imminent victory, or imminent clamp down. In several states over the past two years we've been dealt severe setbacks, numbing the earlier anticipation of imminent victory, and the marriage issue has subsided somewhat in Illinois due to the threat of a constitutional amendment being squelched for the time being, this likewise leading to lower turn out. Unfortunately, thanks to the efforts of our opponents, this is probably a temporary state of affairs.
To conclude, it's very easy to simply show up at events organized by others and make potshot criticisms, it's a completely different thing to initiate the organizing of large events and then bear responsibility for what happens. If you don't like the nature of activism in this town, become something more than a professional critic. Spend that energy organizing a better alternative. Then your criticisms will have far more credibility.
"Lap dog," or dog who's all bark and no bite?
08 Apr 2006
Date Edited: 08 Apr 2006 03:12:25 AM
"you said that most LGBT people were insulted by the word queer, even though the poll had nothing to do with which word you are insulted by"
Again, stop being lazy, and read the study, rather than just spouting off. Here's what part of the narrative of the study reads:
"What do these findings mean? Some argue that the term 'gay' largely represents the experiences and identity of men, specifically White men. The empirical evidence shows, however, that among those most likely to self-identify as non-straight in the Black Pride sample, the term 'gay' (and, among women, 'lesbian') is primarily chosen and readily used. Nearly two thirds of men, and even 12 percent of women, chose 'gay' to describe themselves. Six in 10 women chose the term 'lesbian.' The evidence also indicates that there is a strong reluctance among Black GLBT people to use the term 'queer' as a primary identifier of their sexual orientation..."
And here's the kicker:
"The lack of identification as 'queer' might reveal the racism that Black GLBT people experience from White 'queer identified' activists in their organizations and campaigns, including their lack of outreach to Black GLBT communities. These White 'queer' activists are often thought to have greater access to resources and privilege, and to embrace a greater fluidity concerning their sexual practices and sexual identities, than most Black Pride respondents. These qualities are luxuries often missing in communities of color. Second, the rejection of the term queer might indicate that the radical promise that the term queer holds has not been embraced by Black GLBT individuals as an alternative way (and politics) of sexual identification. As Cathy Cohen states, 'In its current rendition, queer politics is coded with class, gender, and race privilege, and may have lost its potential to be politically expedient organizing tool for addressing the needs—and mobilizing the bodies—of people of color.'"
Coming from Cohen, someone who had previously self-identified as "queer," I'd say that's a pretty harsh judgment. One might even hazard to say that it's a view of the term "queer" as pretty damn insulting, to put it mildly.
As for your use of the term "queer" at our events, I didn't say anything in public the times you've done it as your use of the term is far different than when bigots use it, as has been discussed in several of the posts above. It may not be the term that I would recommend using to self identify, but I'm not going to tell others how they self-identify.
You write:
"... maybe its because every year and every event you have less and less people show up... and in order to get anyone to attend you invite the anarchists "
Get a grip on reality. Re: the war, the March 18th Chicago protest was the largest anti-war protest this city has seen since the March 20, 2003 march on Lake Shore Drive at the start of the war, which we also had a big hand in organizing. By many accounts Chicago's protest was also the largest protest in the country on the 3rd anniversary of the war. So hardly a case of "less and less people show up."
We heard through the grapevine that you were pissing on the whole notion of a Michigan Avenue march – fine – then organize your own alternative, rather than piss and moan AFTER the event like you do every year. Oh, sorry, you didn't do that because you knew that even LESS and LESS people would have shown up for your event!! For all your talk about me being "the pigs' lapdog on M18," I didn't exactly see you charging the barricades, macho man. You had tough talk about direct action and delivered exactly: NOTHING. I make no apologies about M18 being a "legal" march, because that's what people democratically decided to do. Now if you had used those people who had come to the event wanting to participate in a legal event as a shield for direct action, I would have had a huge problem with that. That's not what they had signed up for, and it would have been extremely manipulative for you have done so. So don't piss and moan about us keeping the thing legal. As it was, we had a running battle all day long with the police, with several shouting matches with them (while they videotaped us for "evidence"), with Ralph Chiezewski (sp?), Deputy Cmdr of the Central Business District, implicitly threatening to arrest me as late as 8:30 PM that night. Thank you very much, I'm still dealing with three charges from last year, with a court date on Monday, and Chiezewski testifying against me probably sometime next month.
If you're talking about attendance at equal marriage rights events, our last protest was virtually over when your group finally decided to show up, so don't judge the turnout there by what you (finally) showed up to see. I happen to know that not all of your number were very thrilled with your intervention at that event, so I wouldn't be so quick to speak for all of "the anarchists," if I were you. By the way, it was one of your folks who contacted us about attending, we said "great, let's talk about it," and then never heard back.
Speaking more generally, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why attendance is smaller today at marriage equality events than it was in the Spring of '04. People tend to show up for political events when they see a real possibility for imminent victory, or imminent clamp down. In several states over the past two years we've been dealt severe setbacks, numbing the earlier anticipation of imminent victory, and the marriage issue has subsided somewhat in Illinois due to the threat of a constitutional amendment being squelched for the time being, this likewise leading to lower turn out. Unfortunately, thanks to the efforts of our opponents, this is probably a temporary state of affairs.
To conclude, it's very easy to simply show up at events organized by others and make potshot criticisms, it's a completely different thing to initiate the organizing of large events and then bear responsibility for what happens. If you don't like the nature of activism in this town, become something more than a professional critic. Spend that energy organizing a better alternative. Then your criticisms will have far more credibility.