Invective and rhetoric aside, what are the real issues here?
1. Was there or was there not an indigenous population in the area now called Israel, Gaza and the West Bank during the late 1800's when the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in that area first began to be actively pursued? Or was the land sitting empty? Though there have been some apologists for the Israeli government policies who have claimed the land was empty, this is refuted by many other sources including early founders of Israel in their correspondence and public writing, in which the topic of discussion was "what do we do with the indigenous Arabs?". There were fierce polemics among different factions of the founders of Israel, with positions ranging from "expel them" to "let's create a joint Arab-Jewish democratic state". (By the way, I don't read Arabic so 90% of my sources on the above are Israeli).
2. What was this population? There was a small longstanding Jewish population even then, but a larger population that was Arabic speaking and was either Christian, Moslem or Druze by religion. There were (and are) still a few Aramaic speakers, Aramaic being the language spoken there at the time of the Roman empire. This was not an "alien" population that did not belong, it was the indigenous population of the area. The DNA studies I mentioned in my first post suggest that at a distance of 2,000 years, ancestors of at least some modern Palestinian arabs and some modern Diaspora Jews formed one gene pool. This undermines the idea that the Palestinians are not indigenous, and also, incidentally, the idea that modern Jews are descended from the Khazar Turks and not from Middle Eastern populations. So the idea that Palestinians have no case because they were not indigenous to the area is refuted. Of course 2,000 years ago everybody more or less was speaking Aramaic and did not switch to Arabic until the Arab-borne Muslim expansion of 600 AD or so, but "Arab" is a linguistic category, and it is quite possible that descendents of people in the area who were originally Aramaic speaking Jews end up as part of the population now speaking Arabic and of Moslem or Christian religion. A lot can happen in two thousand years. All kinds of different strands probably go to form the total ancestry of both Palestinian Arabs and Jews originally of the diaspora and now settled in Israel, plus their descendents.
3. Was the non-Jewish population then displaced, as a result of Jewish settlement? Of course it was. and claims by apologists for the Israeli right wing that these people don't exist, or never were there, or floated in from the desert, etc. are bound to raise fears that the plan is to displace even more. It may be that they only call themselves "Palestinians" recently, but they are still people who either have been pushed out of the lands of their birth, or are oppressed within those lands.
4. What is the priority to push for now? A peaceful solution that would provide for wecurity, prosperity and respect for national feelings of all concerned, both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs. Just as it is not useful (to put it mildly) to pretend that the Palestinians don't have roots in Palestine, one can not ignore the fact that there is now an Israeli Jewish community several generations deep who have rights also. But who is getting stepped on hardest now are the Palestinians, whose situation is desperate. Suicide bombings and other targeting of unarmed civilians can not be morally justified, but nor can the continual expansion of the settlments, the demolition of houses, etc. by the Israeli regime. The great tragedy is that the extreme behavior on one side plays into the extreme behavior on the other: The more Sharon blows up houses and pushes settlements (and his allies on the ultra-right hint about throwing all the Palestinians out of their homeland) the more Hamas is strengthened, and vice versa.
5. What is our responsibility? f By "we" I mean people who do not live in that area, but who live, pay taxes and vote in the USA. We can not ignore the fact that the Israeli government could not do what it does without the massive material support of the United States. As US citizens, we need to speak out to demand that our government take a stand to end Sharon's oppression of the Palestinians, if any chance of a peaceful solution is to be salvaged. That we also denounce suicide bomgings is also necessary and appropriate, but where we have leverage is with our own government and its one-sided policies.
Re: DePaul Students for Justice in Palestine under attack.
04 Oct 2004
Date Edited: 04 Oct 2004 09:54:07 PM
1. Was there or was there not an indigenous population in the area now called Israel, Gaza and the West Bank during the late 1800's when the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in that area first began to be actively pursued? Or was the land sitting empty? Though there have been some apologists for the Israeli government policies who have claimed the land was empty, this is refuted by many other sources including early founders of Israel in their correspondence and public writing, in which the topic of discussion was "what do we do with the indigenous Arabs?". There were fierce polemics among different factions of the founders of Israel, with positions ranging from "expel them" to "let's create a joint Arab-Jewish democratic state". (By the way, I don't read Arabic so 90% of my sources on the above are Israeli).
2. What was this population? There was a small longstanding Jewish population even then, but a larger population that was Arabic speaking and was either Christian, Moslem or Druze by religion. There were (and are) still a few Aramaic speakers, Aramaic being the language spoken there at the time of the Roman empire. This was not an "alien" population that did not belong, it was the indigenous population of the area. The DNA studies I mentioned in my first post suggest that at a distance of 2,000 years, ancestors of at least some modern Palestinian arabs and some modern Diaspora Jews formed one gene pool. This undermines the idea that the Palestinians are not indigenous, and also, incidentally, the idea that modern Jews are descended from the Khazar Turks and not from Middle Eastern populations. So the idea that Palestinians have no case because they were not indigenous to the area is refuted. Of course 2,000 years ago everybody more or less was speaking Aramaic and did not switch to Arabic until the Arab-borne Muslim expansion of 600 AD or so, but "Arab" is a linguistic category, and it is quite possible that descendents of people in the area who were originally Aramaic speaking Jews end up as part of the population now speaking Arabic and of Moslem or Christian religion. A lot can happen in two thousand years. All kinds of different strands probably go to form the total ancestry of both Palestinian Arabs and Jews originally of the diaspora and now settled in Israel, plus their descendents.
3. Was the non-Jewish population then displaced, as a result of Jewish settlement? Of course it was. and claims by apologists for the Israeli right wing that these people don't exist, or never were there, or floated in from the desert, etc. are bound to raise fears that the plan is to displace even more. It may be that they only call themselves "Palestinians" recently, but they are still people who either have been pushed out of the lands of their birth, or are oppressed within those lands.
4. What is the priority to push for now? A peaceful solution that would provide for wecurity, prosperity and respect for national feelings of all concerned, both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs. Just as it is not useful (to put it mildly) to pretend that the Palestinians don't have roots in Palestine, one can not ignore the fact that there is now an Israeli Jewish community several generations deep who have rights also. But who is getting stepped on hardest now are the Palestinians, whose situation is desperate. Suicide bombings and other targeting of unarmed civilians can not be morally justified, but nor can the continual expansion of the settlments, the demolition of houses, etc. by the Israeli regime. The great tragedy is that the extreme behavior on one side plays into the extreme behavior on the other: The more Sharon blows up houses and pushes settlements (and his allies on the ultra-right hint about throwing all the Palestinians out of their homeland) the more Hamas is strengthened, and vice versa.
5. What is our responsibility? f By "we" I mean people who do not live in that area, but who live, pay taxes and vote in the USA. We can not ignore the fact that the Israeli government could not do what it does without the massive material support of the United States. As US citizens, we need to speak out to demand that our government take a stand to end Sharon's oppression of the Palestinians, if any chance of a peaceful solution is to be salvaged. That we also denounce suicide bomgings is also necessary and appropriate, but where we have leverage is with our own government and its one-sided policies.